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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

I've no objection to people voting Labour, as I've said on some thread or other I might even do it myself this time round. Plenty of times why you really, really shouldn't have voted Labour, but Corbyn's fast fading 80s tribute act probably isn't one of them. But ignore the 5 yearly voting ritual, leave it as the trivial act that it is, an act that solidifies our lack of power. If you are against capital, privatisation, whatever, just get on and oppose them.
 
Tell us about the path you have gone down to save public services.

That's a cop out, you don't know my personal circumstances any more than I know yours.

I'm sure you want public services to thrive and expand as much as I do, so how can that be achieved in your opinion?
 
That's a cop out, you don't know my personal circumstances any more than I know yours.

I'm sure you want public services to thrive and expand as much as I do, so how can that be achieved in your opinion?
Don't know why it's a cop out asking you that question? :confused: If you want public services - or any kind of political goal, asking you what you are doing to pursue that seems entirely reasonable. I'm assuming from your answer though, that you are not doing anything actively to defend public services? If that's the case you are, literally, reduced to putting an x on a paper every 5 years - and even then voting for a party that has actively undermined those services over the last 20 years.

Fwiw my own politics don't reduce down to defending public services or the vision of 1945, I'd like to see deeper change. But even within that there are major battles to be had that are part of/in parallel to 'defending public services' (jobs, working conditions, power in the workplace - as well as the service itself). What to do about it? Get involved. Even in these dark times there are plenty of ways of doing that.
 
Andrew Hertford In the case of Trump and Le Pen i've been banging on loudly about how everyone 'should' vote for the least worst option (to the annoyance of many on here), but tell me what would you do in my situation:
I live in a very safe Labour seat (Lambeth) and have along with some other locals been putting in loads of effort and time last the past few months to find out what chance there is of saving my local adventure playground from being sold by the council's 'regeneration team' to developers for a block of private flats.
The councillors have ranged from 'I'm sorry there's nothing I can do' to patently dishonest and mendacious.
Do you see why voting labour here is not an option that makes any sense?
 
Andrew Hertford In the case of Trump and Le Pen i've been banging on loudly about how everyone 'should' vote for the least worst option (to the annoyance of many on here), but tell me what would you do in my situation:
I live in a very safe Labour seat (Lambeth) and have along with some other locals been putting in loads of effort and time last the past few months to find out what chance there is of saving my local adventure playground from being sold by the council's 'regeneration team' to developers for a block of private flats.
The councillors have ranged from 'I'm sorry there's nothing I can do' to patently dishonest and mendacious.
Do you see why voting labour here is not an option that makes any sense?

Yes I do see that, But do your Labour councillors want to get rid of your local playground and not replace it because they don't like public services? Or is it because they are short of funds?
 
Don't know why it's a cop out asking you that question? :confused: If you want public services - or any kind of political goal, asking you what you are doing to pursue that seems entirely reasonable. I'm assuming from your answer though, that you are not doing anything actively to defend public services? If that's the case you are, literally, reduced to putting an x on a paper every 5 years - and even then voting for a party that has actively undermined those services over the last 20 years.

Fwiw my own politics don't reduce down to defending public services or the vision of 1945, I'd like to see deeper change. But even within that there are major battles to be had that are part of/in parallel to 'defending public services' (jobs, working conditions, power in the workplace - as well as the service itself). What to do about it? Get involved. Even in these dark times there are plenty of ways of doing that.

Get involved how exactly? Public services are at risk now and within a decade they may have been eroded to a bare minimum at best. That will happen while the tories are still in power no matter what you or I do to defend them.

As for what I've done to help essential services, your assumption is completely wrong.
 
Yes I do see that, But do your Labour councillors want to get rid of your local playground and not replace it because they don't like public services? Or is it because they are short of funds?
Of course its not because they are evil and hate playgrounds. But in a safe labour seat what can I do to change the austerity policy?
There was a local councillor who was well liked, but she was disciplined and eventually left the party last year. If she stood as an independent and had a bit of publicity locally i think she could have done well.
 
Of course its not because they are evil and hate playgrounds. But in a safe labour seat what can I do to change the austerity policy?
There was a local councillor who was well liked, but she was disciplined and eventually left the party last year. If she stood as an independent and had a bit of publicity locally i think she could have done well.

Quite, the Lambeth Labour councillor that strayed 'off message' and opposed cuts/sell-offs gets disciplined for doing so.
 
Of course its not because they are evil and hate playgrounds. But in a safe labour seat what can I do to change the austerity policy?
There was a local councillor who was well liked, but she was disciplined and eventually left the party last year. If she stood as an independent and had a bit of publicity locally i think she could have done well.

Apologies, I see what you mean now. Unfortunately because of FPTP there isn't much you can do on June 8th. Me neither by the way.
 
Bimble is asking what he or she can do to help end austerity and I don't know to be honest. Austerity will only end once we've got rid of the tory government.

You're deliberately avoiding to comment on the treatment of a Lambeth councillor by her own Labour council because she opposed cuts/sell-offs. I can see why though.
 
As for what I've done to help essential services, your assumption is completely wrong.
this is getting like pulling teeth: okay, you seem to be saying you've been involved in some kind of politics, some kind of campaign (is it secret?). What was it? What was the political logic?
 
this is getting like pulling teeth: okay, you seem to be saying you've been involved in some kind of politics, some kind of campaign (is it secret?). What was it? What was the political logic?

OK. I don't see what relevance it has to the subject of stopping tory cuts, but my partner and I adopted a child who was in care 15 years ago who is still with us. We've probably saved our local authority's Children's Social Care, Child Mental Health Services and probably Police Services a huge amount of time and funding which has hopefully been used to benefit children elsewhere.

That's me, so what have you done?
 
The role of Labour in local authorities is not great, though not entirely their own fault - the threat of imprisonment for setting 'illegal' budgets is real enough that it seems no-one will consider it now. But also I live in a borough run by a very right wing Labour set, and it's true they are unable to process the idea of solidarity in attempting to oppose the cuts.

At the same time, we all know there's at least two parties within Labour struggling to get out, and people are suggesting you try to vote for the one that will roll back council cuts. This is problematic - in some areas the only way to 'show support' for Corbyn's program is to vote for someone who has repeatedly denounced Corbyn. It's a mess for sure, but in this curious phase of Labour's existence isn't it a bit simplistic to say 'Labour have screwed me over so I'll never vote for them'? It's the first time in my lifetime that there has been a mainstream party not committed to neo-liberalism - even if the ability of the left of the party to oppose it will obviously be very compromised.

According to new polls 30% of the electorate are now prepared to vote for a programme that is hard left according to the media, BBC, etc, thats not a bad starting position, though that 30% may include many who won't actually vote, young people, students, etc.
 
Are you being deliberately obtuse here? You're arguing that only Labour can protect services and stop cuts, whilst we have Labour councils disciplining their own councillors for opposing those cuts/sell-offs, to the point where they leave the party.

Jeeeeeze mate!

I'm saying that only a Labour government can stop the tory erosion of public spending and services, which I assume is also in part responsible for the forced closures in Lambeth!
 
OK. I don't see what relevance it has to the subject of stopping tory cuts, but my partner and I adopted a child who was in care 15 years ago who is still with us. We've probably saved our local authority's Children's Social Care, Child Mental Health Services and probably Police Services a huge amount of time and funding which has hopefully been used to benefit children elsewhere.

Whilst adoption is of course a very laudable thing to do, we're talking about dealing with cuts, etc. on a structural level, not individual acts. How does that directly save and defend those public services?

Me? 6 months of direct and community on social housing issues - mostly fighting Labour councils that are actively engaged in private financing initiatives and frankly breaking promises on social housing residents rights to return to their homes after 'regeneration'.

(been involved since 1994 in all manner of stuff though - CJB, ANL, anti-capitalism, LGBT and women's actions, etc)
 
Whilst adoption is of course a very laudable thing to do, we're talking about dealing with cuts, etc. on a structural level, not individual acts.

Are we? Oh, if you say so.

Me? 6 months of direct and community on social housing issues - mostly fighting Labour councils that are actively engaged in private financing initiatives and frankly breaking promises on social housing residents rights to return to their homes after 'regeneration'.

(been involved since 1994 in all manner of stuff though - CJB, ANL, anti-capitalism, LGBT and women's actions, etc)

And these actions have reversed cuts or helped ease the pressure on essential services how?
 
Are we? Oh, if you say so.



And these actions have stopped tory cuts or helped ease the pressure on essential services how?

They've directly supported and helped people on the end of cuts, sometimes slowed down the closure or winding down of services, and just occasionally, worked towards wider causes that have forced councils and politicians (Labour or Tory) into climbdowns or shift of policy.

Fucking hell :D
 
They've directly supported and helped people on the end of cuts, sometimes slowed down the closure or winding down of services, and just occasionally, worked towards wider causes that have forced councils and politicians into climbdowns - Labour or Tory.

Fucking hell :D

Very 'laudable', but it doesn't tackle the root cause, which is the national tory government. Only an electable Labour Party can do that.
 
Good grief, talk about going round in circles. :rolleyes:

No it doesn't, look at the figures. Services even fared better during the last Labour government.

People lost their social housing, saw services cut and privatised, were on the receiving end of PFI in hospitals and schools that backfired badly, saw their civil liberties attacked under Labour. Regardless of whatever overall spending graph you might be able to find.
 
People lost their social housing, saw services cut and privatised, use of PFI in hospitals and schools that have backfired badly, saw their civil liberties attacked under Labour. Regardless of whatever overall spending graph you might be able to find.

And far more are losing their rights and services now and far more will in the future while we still have a tory government.
 
OK. I don't see what relevance it has to the subject of stopping tory cuts, but my partner and I adopted a child who was in care 15 years ago who is still with us. We've probably saved our local authority's Children's Social Care, Child Mental Health Services and probably Police Services a huge amount of time and funding which has hopefully been used to benefit children elsewhere.

That's me, so what have you done?
So, we get to it. Entirely laudable thing to do, adopting a child - genuinely (my partner used to be a foster carer, fwiw). But you gave this as your answer, when I asked about your politics, about what you are doing to defend public services. I think we've finally got to it haven't we - you are not doing anything. Me - stuff on and off since 1979 or so, for the first 10 years in the Labour Party, then anarcho politics, more recently anti-cuts, local solidarity movement, stuff on sanctions. But it's not a who can piss highest thing, I've said on here I've done nothing for the last year or more due to health issues. It's about having some sense of a process, a politics, fuck it, if nothing else a sense of connection. I was asking if you did anything about the things you believe in, because if you'd been involved in say a campaign against NHS cuts, in some degree, in some way, an aspect of that would have been extra-parliamentary. It wouldn't have been simply 'let's wait till the next election, err, that's it'. But it seems that's precisely your political approach 'Corbyn is shit, let's hope somebody else comes along to vote for in 2022'. From your perspective, how do you move things on, what do you do to make the changes you want? Anything, anything at all???
 
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