Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[DotCommunist]

with his frothy coffee and dismal burgers

 

[Pickman's model]

thats just it. They don't care how it looks. They want to fuck corbyn off out of it and the resurgent labour left slapped back into the box marked 'yesterdays men'. In order to do that you create crisis. Strategy of tension and all that. The idea goes that once the dust has settled OS swoops in as the moderate candidate to save the party from the shambles.

 

[brogdale]

thats just it. They don't care how it looks. They want to fuck corbyn off out of it and the resurgent labour left slapped back into the box marked 'yesterdays men'. In order to do that you create crisis. Strategy of tension and all that. The idea goes that once the dust has settled OS swoops in as the moderate candidate to save the party from the shambles.

Oh yes.
Bit like total war now.

 

[Pickman's model]

thats just it. They don't care how it looks. They want to fuck corbyn off out of it and the resurgent labour left slapped back into the box marked 'yesterdays men'. In order to do that you create crisis. Strategy of tension and all that. The idea goes that once the dust has settled OS swoops in as the moderate candidate to save the party from the shambles.

yeh but you'll know that anything that gets a new os spends the next six months ironing out all the problems with it

 

[a_chap]

Just heard the news.

It's not often I say "What the actual fuck" out loud in the office.

 

[nino_savatte]

Labour is rivalling the Tories for being the least democratic political party in parliament, isn't it? What a bunch of fucking control freaks.

 

[extra dry]

What a load of bs. The new members mean nothing to those judges.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

It's almost as if the lawyers are prolonging the contest in order to get more work.

 

[gosub]

It's almost as if the lawyers are prolonging the contest in order to get more work.

why in the name of Jarndyce would you think that?

 

[two sheds]

But we're not talking about "what's my alternative," we're talking about Corbyn and co. If you want to start a follow-on conversation about extra-parliamentary strategies then go right ahead, it's a huge subject and well worth discussing. It's not the topic here though and trying to sidetrack the subject to that when challenged so you don't have to deal with your own strategy's inadequacies is poor form.

Well it's related since you were questioning the benefits of social democracy with the cartoon you put up, and that's what Corbyn seems to be moving back to, but fair enough.

How do you mean about my own strategy's inadequacies?

 

[Rob Ray]

How do you mean about my own strategy's inadequacies?

Well in this case it was lack of consistency in your logic - arguing that it doesn't matter "which flavour" of politician is in charge very much but also that backing Corbyn is the best hope for real change. If it doesn't matter much, who cares whether Corbyn's in charge? A strategy where you don't actually expect change to happen as a result of your actions is a fairly flawed one.

I guess what you're trying to get at is that getting Corbyn in will make some limited difference within a broader pattern of non-change, but your original posts seemed to contradict themselves.

 

[two sheds]

No, read them again. I did after ba asked me to. I was pretty bloody clear. I'm happy to admit my mistakes but I think the criticisms of those particular posts have been just mierenneuken as the dutch would put it. I think because it's just too disturbing to think that social democracy could have actually worked in some way.

 

[brogdale]

Again, easy money this judgery lark. Plain as fucking day, innit?

I obviously over-estimated my judicial abilities. Clearly logic is not enough.

 

[rutabowa]

No, read them again. I did after ba asked me to. I was pretty bloody clear. I'm happy to admit my mistakes but I think the criticisms of those particular posts have been just mierenneuken as the dutch would put it. I think because it's just too disturbing to think that social democracy could have actually worked in some way.

You were saying that it was only for the last 30-40 or so years that the flavour of party in charge has made no difference, prior to that the flavour of party in charge did make a significant difference, and that if Corbyn remains leader/gets in to power it would shake the system up enough that it would once again make a significant difference, I think? I follow that, it doesn't seem contradictory to me.

 

[two sheds]

Ta - yes and for the 30 years before that, too, with the post war social contract.

One problem though is that it took WWII to set up the PWSC and there was a real demand for change - I'm not sure that 'Rip-off Britain' with the priorities people have now because of the media is going to be enough.

 

[DotCommunist]

Ta - yes and for the 30 years before that, too, with the post war social contract.

One problem though is that it took WWII to set up the PWSC and there was a real demand for change - I'm not sure that 'Rip-off Britain' with the priorities people have now because of the media is going to be enough.

it took two world wars and near a century of violent and non violent labour agitation to get there. This is why I express disbelief when people don't think they will kill you for asking for crumbs from the table. Oh and the russian revolution focused certain minds on how not to end up gunned down in a cellar as well

 

[DotCommunist]

or more than a century. LCS maybe shouldn't be taken as the point of origin. Deeper roots

 

[Vintage Paw]

Well, the ruling came with 3 hours to go before I was going to go and nominate Jeremy. I won't be allowed now. No idea if I'll be allowed in the meeting at all. Previously new members weren't to be allowed in, but with this coming on such short notice I don't know now. I certainly won't be able to vote, regardless.

 

[lazythursday]

Does this mean that nominations made by CLPs last week (when new members were suddenly allowed) will now all become invalid?

 

[Vintage Paw]

Does this mean that nominations made by CLPs last week (when new members were suddenly allowed) will now all become invalid?

I'm going to guess no. They went on the current rules/ruling as it stood at the time. It wouldn't do them any good anyway. Before last week's ruling CLPs were voting for Corbyn by landslides already.

 

[butchersapron]

**

 

[lazythursday]

All CLP nominations are indicative and wank. What were you told?

Oh I realise that. But in would be in character of the NEC Procedures Committee to rule them invalid anyway just as another petty swipe at the membership.

 

[skyscraper101]

Will is make any difference to the result. I'm betting no.

 

[Vintage Paw]

The big unknown is how union members vote. It's likely to be far closer among the union affiliate bloc than the members (and of course the registered supporters). Close enough to cause Corbyn to sweat a bit? Probably not, but it might not be the devastating landslide for him that some are predicting.

 

[butchersapron]

The big unknown is how union members vote. It's likely to be far closer among the union affiliate bloc than the members (and of course the registered supporters). Close enough to cause Corbyn to sweat a bit? Probably not, but it might not be the devastating landslide for him that some are predicting.

70 000 last time. Not really in the game. They were known last time - 60+ corbyn.

 

[DotCommunist]

+

Ta - yes and for the 30 years before that, too, with the post war social contract.

One problem though is that it took WWII to set up the PWSC and there was a real demand for change - I'm not sure that 'Rip-off Britain' with the priorities people have now because of the media is going to be enough.

also sheds, in my theorising both those wars brutalised our entire class, that and post-war rationing. Finest minds of their generation starved and all that. Where have all the flowers gone? etc

 

[timeforanother]

I've every sympathy for joe cox's family and friends and she didn't deserve to be murdered, who does? How many workplace deaths take place annually and go uneulogized? but the way these people are cynically using her murder to claim victimhood because they are being given the mildest of barrackings is pretty sickening.

She also seemed genuinely nice and well intentioned. I feel no need to learn more about her voting record now.

Totally agree about all the toilers who's deaths are ignored.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I've had the email. With a couple of hours to go before the meeting. "Yeah but no but..." Bet loads will still turn up.

 

[Cid]

The judgment basically follows similar lines to the ballot case; Rulebook allows NEC certain powers, NEC has exercised them. It might be interesting to read paras 47-51ish which deal with unreasonable exercise of power by decision making bodies (mainly in mutuals), but these are somewhat narrow legal points... Could potentially have swung the other way, but without delving into previous case law it's difficult to say.

In any case it's something of a side issue. If you want an important thing to be angry about it's that the labour party is subject to the same external rules as your average golf club.

 

[two sheds]

In any case it's something of a side issue. If you want an important thing to be angry about it's that the labour party is subject to the same external rules as your average golf club.

I'm more angry that the PLP is abusing its power against the members (while proclaiming loudly that it's the other way round).