Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[coley]

Going back to the argument I had last night he said MPs were right to raise concerns about abuse to the press just as they did about the Iraq war when there was a debate in the run up to it. I mean what do you even say to that?

Concerns raised to the press in 2003: 'I'm worried my party is going to take this country into an illegal war that will destabilise the entire middle east, cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and weaken our standing on the world stage'

Concerns raised to the press in 2016:
'Somebody called me a cunt on the Internet and it hurt my feelings'

What they don't get is that all this calls their judgement into question. It's not simply a case of crying about abuse it's the fact they're crying to the press, the speaker, postman or anyone who listens and every little thing that approaches even being disagreed with robustly is accused of being threatening, abusive, bullying, intimidating and so on. To run a country you need to have some balls, vagina, back bone, thick skin or whatever you wanna call it. Crying to the press about the slightest thing looks like a 3 year old crying to the nursery nurse because Peter knocked the bricks over on purpose. I wouldn't vote for them on that basis alone. Say what you like about Corbyn, there's plenty to criticise but damn he's got some cajones to take this from the entire press, his own MPs, a section of his membership, the Tories, gloating SNP members and so on. To take all that in stride I find pretty remarkable.

Aye, and to take it without responding in kind! TBH I wasn't to keen on him at first, terrorist liking baggage etc, but as time goes by I find meself warming to his sense of decency and the kind of society he seems to want,
And compared to those who oppose him, what's not to like

 

[Casually Red]

McGinn's cynicism is breathtaking, but pointing it out has limited value: anyone who is likely to be receptive to the point will already get it.

My old fella ..no longer with us...knew his dad very well back in the day . He wouldn't have been shy about telling him what he thought of these antics. Or all that surprised either . New sinn fein and new labour have a lot in common .

 

[coley]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

Aye we have plenty of this
"The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit.
Never seems to happen though, does it?

 

[two sheds]

TBH I wasn't to keen on him at first, terrorist liking baggage etc,

And a lot of that was taken out of context, too. Classiest of all was Cameron's twisting of the quote that it was a "tragedy" that Bin Laden had been killed. That was the action of a pure scumbag.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

This was the problem Doctor Carrot said he came up against the other day. Sounds like he had trolls in the discussion but you've got the onlookers viewing too - we need some sort of response to them and I can't see anything better than refuting the allegations wherever you can. Then you can go on to the more general points.

But anyway, I've said my piece.

Quite, I made the mistake of getting riled up. I wouldn't consider the way I approached it bullying and neither did anyone else except the member I was talking to and another person, well the member said I had a bad attitude. Really it was a mild version of some debates I've had and seen on here but it's easily painted as bullying. I approached it wrong and was robust (love that word) in my replies. What I should've done is not engaged further because my initial reply was to someone sharing Debonaire's explanation about why she doesn't support Corbyn. My response was this wasn't about Corbyn, it's about a social movement and so on which got a good response from people. This member piped up listing Blair's achievements, how Brown was gonna rebalance the economy and how Corbyn's a left wing rabble and blah blah. Anyway I shan't bore on much more about it but this is a snap shot of what sort of debates and arguments are being had.

I think the way to deal with it is calmly refute their lies and then link to things like that blog or don't engage at all. I also made the mistake of forgetting who my audience was so to speak. The woman who called me a bully approaches things from a very wet centre liberal/leaning a bit right perspective. Posts links about privildge, liberal middle class feminism and links about how terrible Syria is but also weighs in pretty heavy in support of neo liberal economics. It's a constant source of amazement to me that people like this either cannot or will not link these types of issues to the economic system we live under but there you go. Anyway, I started going on about you should know the history of mass movements, how that's where actual politics happens and where pressure can build on politicians in parliament. Even the Labour member seemed unaware of this fact or unwilling to engage on that point, another fact I found startling. I can't see much options other than calmly refute or don't engage. Either way I should probably get out to meetings and such more often instead of social media as it kinda gets under my skin - perhaps I should go to the press about it?

 

[Wilf]

seemed perectly self explanatory to me, given the context of this thread - the bbc making out a corbyn rally was a lot smaller than it was...and its clear the source of it was "someone off the internet made it"

I think treelover deserves a break......

Well said.

 

[coley]

So..

Pretend to have policies vaguely similar to the tories in the hope that the electorate will be fooled and choose the lesser of 2 evils, then do an about turn on those election policies to "change shit".

Incisive stuff. Who needs principles eh?

Not only are you a moron, you're the shit kind of moron.

Possibly a 16 year old intern on job creation for the progress group?

 

[Wilf]

I'm taken aback by quite how cynically a large chunk of the women in the Parliamentary Labour Party have been prepared to instrumentalise gender and sexual politics. I don't expect them to take class politics seriously or have any sort of economic vision beyond neoliberalism, but I imagined that more of them would have been sincere in their liberal feminist values. But if you genuinely believe that male violence against women should be addressed and that social mobility includes giving women equal access to labour markets, shouldn't you avoid cynically manipulate these issues for political gain?

Indeed - and I think the language is often telling. The complaints against Corbyn are often made in the wording of professionalised, personnel department 'diversity'. Not the language of struggle and liberation.

 

[eoin_k]

My old fella ..no longer with us...knew his dad very well back in the day . He wouldn't have been shy about telling him what he thought of these antics. Or all that surprised either . New sinn fein and new labour have a lot in common .

The timing of this whole fiasco makes his involvement particularly telling: the Tories precipitate the political crisis of a generation, which, among everything else, throws the context underpinning the peace process out the window. When better to initiate a power struggle within the Labour Party that distracts attention from the multiple cans of worms that the government have just opened?

 

[two sheds]

I'd also like to see Owen Smith's condemnation of the abuse and death threats that Corbyn's received. Smith's been verrrrrrrrrrrrrry quiet about them

 

[coley]

Seconded.

Plus 10, obvious.

 

[coley]

Just an unformed musing here but feel free to correct me those who know better.

Blair managed to bring onside a large chunk, a very large chunk of the p/b. Cool Brittannia, remember that shite? But retained labours w/c vote cos 'fuck it, its labour, better than the tories'

It seems to me that they have lost that w/c labour vote, not everywhere and not so simply but I'm no psephologist.

The kendalls, the burnhams, the owens- they aren't talking to the vote labour lost in droves are they? They are still reaching out to the m/c swingers. Much as with the astonishment and and anger from those quarters about the brexit vote. We never exist untill we are use or impediment to be removed

Word, big time.

 

[coley]

I'd also like to see Owen Smith's condemnation of the abuse and death threats that Corbyn's received. Smith's been verrrrrrrrrrrrrry quiet about them

Corbyns received 'death threats' and hasn't run to the media with the lurid details? Mebbes he just wants to get on with the job he was elected to do?!! Odd sort of politician!
Undermine the deviant swine forthwith!

 

[eoin_k]

Does anyone know if Twitter has an algorithm that tells you what you want to hear, or is Owen Smith getting buried under a mountain of fairly mild-mannered ridicule.*

*Obviously who you follow is a factor in terms of what you see, but this is based on looking at his profile or following their hashtags.

 

[quimcunx]

On allegations against Corbyn supporters I agree that they can't get bogged down with investigating and refuting every single one. There will be one a day until the election if the PLP think it's working. I think best to just rebutt in the most general terms on the 'incidents' but be specific about Corbyn. has advocated and practiced and modelled respectful behaviour towards his peers and generally throughout his career... against the boorish culture of parliamentary politics.....something that some in labour have neither joined him in condemning indee have practiced themselves towards Jeremy as very publicly seen in parliament.... until 2 weeks ago when they themselve were the targets of legitimate criticism over their destructive actions..... aided and abetted by the media. etc etc. Getting all that out without Marr or whoever interrupting with more bollocks about being greatly distressed by someone opening a door though is another thing.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Just look how pathetic it is everywhere.

'These Corbynistas are very abusive on Twitter'

'All I've seen is plotters being abusive on Twitter'


'Maybe but they're not as abusive as the Corbynistas'

'No, you're more abusive'

'Nah-ah you are'

'No, no I think you'll find it's you'

'No it's definitely you'

'I'm telling! MISS! MISS!'

Just fuck off. How the hell do they hope to win with whoever ends up leading it if this is the level it's descended to?

 

[two sheds]

I'd say I find that very strange with Corbyn's attitude to such things and ask for an example.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

being greatly distressed by someone opening a door.

That illicited a much needed LOL

 

[gosub]

Just look how pathetic it is everywhere.

'These Corbynistas are very abusive on Twitter'

'All I've seen is plotters being abusive on Twitter'


'Maybe but they're not as abusive as the Corbynistas'

'No, you're more abusive'

'Nah-ah you are'

'No, no I think you'll find it's you'

'No it's definitely you'

'I'm telling! MISS! MISS!'

Just fuck off. How the hell do they hope to win with whoever ends up leading it if this is the level it's descended to?

 

[quimcunx]

That illicited a much needed LOL

They could put a warning at the end. Please note that Jeremy does, however, occasionally open doors. Please remain calm.

 

[J Ed]

Just look how pathetic it is everywhere.

'These Corbynistas are very abusive on Twitter'

'All I've seen is plotters being abusive on Twitter'


'Maybe but they're not as abusive as the Corbynistas'

'No, you're more abusive'

'Nah-ah you are'

'No, no I think you'll find it's you'

'No it's definitely you'

'I'm telling! MISS! MISS!'

Just fuck off. How the hell do they hope to win with whoever ends up leading it if this is the level it's descended to?

So the person in the image above believes that Corbyn supporters have avatars with Enoch Powell on them?

 

[DotCommunist]

again and again I keep being reminded of St Kinnock of the Sea saying the other other day 'It's our party dammit!'

Tells you all you need to know, three quid or twenty five, corbyn or the ghost of lenin. No labour vote here.

Have they set a date for the leadership election yet? I want to see the lab right wearing fixed smiles and blinking back tears again

 

[Doctor Carrot]

So the person in the image above believes that Corbyn supporters have avatars with Enoch Powell on them?

That's correct, yes. It's beyond ridiculous now isn't it?

 

[quimcunx]

So the person in the image above believes that Corbyn supporters have avatars with Enoch Powell on them?

It's not impossible. People are generally a big old bundle of contradictions and inconsistencies. It is just about conceivable that someone who admires Powell could also admire JC, whether for different reasons or because they see what they want in him.

People often get angry and abusive when arguing on the internet, and elsewhere. This holds for Corbyn supporters too, regardless of Corbyn's own super-human ability to avoid doing so. It's hard to see what more he can do about it beyond what he already says and how he behaves. The PLP only say it, they don't live it.

 

[J Ed]

That's correct, yes. It's beyond ridiculous now isn't it?

I only wish that Corbyn supporting Labour Party members BNPalltheWay88 and StormfrontSteve1939 would stop harassing Labour Party moderates

 

[Doctor Carrot]

again and again I keep being reminded of St Kinnock of the Sea saying the other other day 'It's our party dammit!'

Tells you all you need to know, three quid or twenty five, corbyn or the ghost of lenin. No labour vote here.

Have they set a date for the leadership election yet? I want to see the lab right wearing fixed smiles and blinking back tears again

Yeah I just listened to that speech. I was amazed that here was this utter fucking wind bag going on about the labour movement and democracy when the cunt lost two elections, now sits in the house of Lords and was a European commissioner. It just boggles the mind how utterly clueless these fucks are.

 

[Casually Red]

The timing of this whole fiasco makes his involvement particularly telling: the Tories precipitate the political crisis of a generation, which, among everything else, throws the context underpinning the peace process out the window. When better to initiate a power struggle within the Labour Party that distracts attention from the multiple cans of worms that the government have just opened?

If any element of the shinners are involved in this then MI5s rotten handprints are all over this. No matter what they might say the shinners leadership are Blairite through and through . The people McGinn adulates...Blair , Powell and Campbell are massive fans of Adams and McGuiness and vice versa. The shinners are still sharing public platforms withpowell . Backslapping each other publicly . McGinn worked under Coaker..who's briefs were NI shadow secretary and MOD . It's a tangled web.
The main " nationalist " daily here in the north is the Irish News. They ran with this on the front page, givi g McGinns angle wholly uncritically . Going further to say that the entire McGinn family...via an unnamed family member..are hopping mad with Corbyn. Even though they've never met or spoke to him in their lives and no phone call was ever made . That's a definite sign there's been briefing going on .


I also think it goes a lot deeper than brexit . Back in the 80s Corbyn denounced the Anglo Irish agreement as ...correctly...strengthening partition and legitimising the unionist veto . He voted against it . Gerry Adams however was quite wishy washy about it despite the party policy back then to utterly rejectit ..understandable considering what he delivered later . Fast forward to the late 90s and John McDonnell was stating very clearly the republican struggle wasn't waged so republicans would sit in a Stormont assembly . But sit there they did . McDonnell would have been turfed out of the shinners as a dissident had he been a member . Now they're leading the labour party with a real chance of being in government. Frankly both of them are more hard line republicans than the entire sinn fein leadership combined . Blair and co are not happy about that one bit, they can easily see the dangers. And if they can so can Adams .


Let's say for example McDonnell and Corbyn assume leadership in a GE and open up the Steakknife affair. That's the entire sinn fein leadership of most of the Adams period outed as Mi5 agents most likely . Done for. There's a shared interest in upholding " Blairs achievement " both sides of the Irish sea . While Pat McGinn hasn't publicly come out and denounced Corbyn ...instead there's an anonymous family source doing the denouncing on behalf of the family...there's a clear message being sent very publicly to the sinn fein...indeed Irish nationalist ... base that Corbyn is a cunt . And to be going totally off message like that against the Labour leadership..especially a long time ally like Corbyn , absolutely reeks of it being blessed from above. Even though none of it is directly attributable to anyone but the son himself . This stinks of a stab in the back .

 

[Casually Red]

The upside is,they seem to be shitting themselves

I think that's very true . And apparent . And I also think the more Corbyn stands aloof from it the more people will see through it. It'll stink of panic and hysteria the more they overdo it at some point . It'll start to attract very real ridicule the more hysterical it gets . So is best to keep it totally one sided. To stay out of that game as much as possible.

 

[Ole]

Yeah I just listened to that speech. I was amazed that here was this utter fucking wind bag going on about the labour movement and democracy when the cunt lost two elections, now sits in the house of Lords and was a European commissioner. It just boggles the mind how utterly clueless these fucks are.

He's not clueless, he's a bluffing cunt of the very highest order. Voicing the bluff, and seeing others believe it, is probably his own sick way of coming to believe his own lies. Blair does this with Iraq, constantly, too.

 

[J Ed]

Fake Twitter accounts create pretence of support for Owen Smith

Another Clintonite tactic being used.