Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Reiabuzz]

What's the point of you?

Jesus wept

 

[Reiabuzz]

We've had 37 years of Tories already, Eagle or Smith aren't going to win an election anyway and we need an opposition that's actually going to oppose them. The fucking Tory party did a better job of opposition to the Tory Blair government than Labour have for the last 6 years.

You think Corbyn and his absurd, frankly embarrassing 'shadow chancellor' are an effective opposition?

The Tories openly giggle when the deluded cunt approaches the despatch box with another question from Sandra from Hull rather than being arsed to actually challenge the cunts opposite him.

 

[eoin_k]

Can you answer some of the questions put to your rather than just sounding like a broken record.

 

[YouSir]

Jesus wept

There is none then?

 

[maomao]

You think Corbyn and his absurd, frankly embarrassing 'shadow chancellor' are an effective opposition?

The Tories openly giggle when the deluded cunt approaches the despatch box with another question from Sandra from Hull rather than being arsed to actually challenge the cunts opposite him.

And you think a Labour party that is so cowed by Tory success that it refuses to oppose them on anything of worth is more effective? Why not just join the Tories if that's what you want anyway?

 

[Wilf]

Isn't it also a shadow cabinet office? i.e one that she's spent a month not leaving.

Indeed, though there was some discussion about swapping rooms it seems. I haven't seen McDonnell of Corbyn responding to any of these claims for a few days as our broadband is too fucked to watch clips. I suspect they are just getting overwhelmed and haven't got the time to research or construct a proper defence. They probably need a little team beavering away to do rapid rebuttals, though without getting dragged in too much. McDonnell's speech to camera was probably the right tone.

Just as an aside, it's an interesting question: how should left parties and party groupings play all this shit? New Labour - not left obviously - had a clear strategy of insinuation with the media owners, some kind of mechanism for rebutting dodgy stories - and outright bullying of key correspondents from Alistair Campbell. Very little of this is either desirable or possible for the Corbyn team, so what do they do? Probably not much they can do other than putting out statements, dealing with favourable press contacts and running things through social media. As with so much of the Corbyn thing, the unexpected nature of the victory meant he had no plans or team in place.

 

[DotCommunist]

The Tories openly giggle when the deluded cunt approaches the despatch box

yeah he needs to win the respect of the tories by adressing the agenda set by them and a complicit media. God forbid the voices of constituents might be heard over the sound of 28k a year school braying.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Going back to the argument I had last night he said MPs were right to raise concerns about abuse to the press just as they did about the Iraq war when there was a debate in the run up to it. I mean what do you even say to that?

Concerns raised to the press in 2003: 'I'm worried my party is going to take this country into an illegal war that will destabilise the entire middle east, cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and weaken our standing on the world stage'

Concerns raised to the press in 2016:
'Somebody called me a cunt on the Internet and it hurt my feelings'

What they don't get is that all this calls their judgement into question. It's not simply a case of crying about abuse it's the fact they're crying to the press, the speaker, postman or anyone who listens and every little thing that approaches even being disagreed with robustly is accused of being threatening, abusive, bullying, intimidating and so on. To run a country you need to have some balls, vagina, back bone, thick skin or whatever you wanna call it. Crying to the press about the slightest thing looks like a 3 year old crying to the nursery nurse because Peter knocked the bricks over on purpose. I wouldn't vote for them on that basis alone. Say what you like about Corbyn, there's plenty to criticise but damn he's got some cajones to take this from the entire press, his own MPs, a section of his membership, the Tories, gloating SNP members and so on. To take all that in stride I find pretty remarkable.

 

[YouSir]

Can you answer some of the questions put to your rather than just sounding like a broken record.

I've yet to see them do anything but pop up, be abusive and then disappear in a huff, so wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[two sheds]

That's what tories often seem to do. Funny that.

 

[Reiabuzz]

yeah he needs to win the respect of the tories by adressing the agenda set by them and a complicit media. God forbid the voices of constituents might be heard over the sound of 28k a year school braying.

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

 

[Mr.Dogg]

Let's see what Owen Jones has to say about this.








Survival of the slickest.

I suspect the Guardian will have Owen Jones write a "I used to be a big supporter of Corbyn , but now will vote Owen Smith" piece on the eve of the leadership vote.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Indeed, though there was some discussion about swapping rooms it seems. I haven't seen McDonnell of Corbyn responding to any of these claims for a few days as our broadband is too fucked to watch clips. I suspect they are just getting overwhelmed and haven't got the time to research or construct a proper defence. They probably need a little team beavering away to do rapid rebuttals, though without getting dragged in too much. McDonnell's speech to camera was probably the right tone.

Just as an aside, it's an interesting question: how should left parties and party groupings play all this shit? New Labour - not left obviously - had a clear strategy of insinuation with the media owners, some kind of mechanism for rebutting dodgy stories - and outright bullying of key correspondents from Alistair Campbell. Very little of this is either desirable or possible for the Corbyn team, so what do they do? Probably not much they can do other than putting out statements, dealing with favourable press contacts and running things through social media. As with so much of the Corbyn thing, the unexpected nature of the victory meant he had no plans or team in place.

Your last sentence is really key. Once he sees this bollocks off he's really got to get to work restructuring the party, getting these people on board or clearing them out and having a good media strategy, particularly a social media strategy because I think that's really under tapped. It's been used pretty well so far but I think a lot more can be done going forward. Momentum understand that but the labour party under Corbyn are lagging behind in that regard.

 

[DotCommunist]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

and islington for 30 years, and with the biggest leadership vote in labours recent history. I don't know what electorate you claim to know the minds of, all 40 illion of them, but I think there's a lot more complexity to peoples voting intentions than you do. Great to see you claim JC has arrogance while high handedly telling us what the electorate will or won't buy. Allanis

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

What is this airy socialist bollocks then?

 

[Rob Ray]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

I'm always amazed by how angry people can get while having absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Just vomiting out half-digested lumps of other people's equally idiotic opinions but really feeling it, y'know?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What is this airy socialist bollocks then?

"Corbyn the Beast in lewd exposure of 'airy socialist bollocks"

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

...dipped his airy socialist bollocks in the punch bowl at Labour's christmas party.

 

[DotCommunist]

stalinist teabagging

 

[FridgeMagnet]

"Corbyn the Beast in lewd exposure of 'airy socialist bollocks"

Even more misogyny

 

[maomao]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

And yet you haven't yet told us once who is electable. Either stop repeating the same old whiney crap or just fuck off. You're not having a conversation, you're not persuading anyone, you're not even having an argument, you're just being an annoying whining prick.

 

[campanula]

Indeed - whenever this unelectable theme comes up in conversation, the suggestion of an alternative (plausible) candidate is rarely forthcoming.

Also, Relabuzz, 'arrogant dick' might pass muster for scintillating and erudite political analysis in your circles...but it really doesn't cut the mustard for me.

 

[The Octagon]

The guys an arrogant fucking dick. Leaving that aside, he's also massively incompetent. He should be nowhere near a shadow cabinet let alone trying to lead one. No policies, just some airy juvenile socialist bollocks that will never fly with the electorate.

The goal of the opposition is to be in government. Once he's there, yes, change shit. But he's not gonna be there as he's completely and utterly unelectable outside student pubs.

So..

Pretend to have policies vaguely similar to the tories in the hope that the electorate will be fooled and choose the lesser of 2 evils, then do an about turn on those election policies to "change shit".

Incisive stuff. Who needs principles eh?

Not only are you a moron, you're the shit kind of moron.

 

[Casually Red]

Indeed, though there was some discussion about swapping rooms it seems. I haven't seen McDonnell of Corbyn responding to any of these claims for a few days as our broadband is too fucked to watch clips. I suspect they are just getting overwhelmed and haven't got the time to research or construct a proper defence. They probably need a little team beavering away to do rapid rebuttals, though without getting dragged in too much. McDonnell's speech to camera was probably the right tone.

Just as an aside, it's an interesting question: how should left parties and party groupings play all this shit? New Labour - not left obviously - had a clear strategy of insinuation with the media owners, some kind of mechanism for rebutting dodgy stories - and outright bullying of key correspondents from Alistair Campbell. Very little of this is either desirable or possible for the Corbyn team, so what do they do? Probably not much they can do other than putting out statements, dealing with favourable press contacts and running things through social media. As with so much of the Corbyn thing, the unexpected nature of the victory meant he had no plans or team in place.

The tsunami of lies and exaggerations means he'd be playing endless whackamole with endless accusations . Which I suspect is what his opponents want . There's a real issue of giving credence to the ludicrous by addressing it in detail . The Blairites weren't facing this type of thing or anything comparable . Not until they'd stacked up a literal mountain of very real sleaze .
I think a far better strategy is to lump all the bullshit together in a bullshit category and adress why it's being alleged by these bulshitters . Rather than the specifics of what is being alleged by these bullshitters .

 

[two sheds]

That just looks like you're denying it, though, or being paranoid. I like the blog? linked to recently that lists each of the accusations and succinctly the specifics of why it's wrong. After you've demonstrated that you can start looking at why.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

There's a classic essay I'm very fond of by systems theorist Donella Meadows:

PLACES TO INTERVENE IN A SYSTEM
(in increasing order of effectiveness)

9. Constants, parameters, numbers (subsidies, taxes, standards).
8. Regulating negative feedback loops.
7. Driving positive feedback loops.
6. Material flows and nodes of material intersection.
5. Information flows.
4. The rules of the system (incentives, punishments, constraints).
3. The distribution of power over the rules of the system.
2. The goals of the system.
1. The mindset or paradigm out of which the system — its goals, power structure, rules, its culture — arises.

Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System

I think it's instructive to ask yourself where in this framework the interventions of the people joining Labour to vote for Corbyn (or possibly more accurately, against nuLabour/neoliberalism) are aimed..

... and then to ask the same question about the PLP & the donors who support the PLP & the punters who align with the PLP and their donors.

 

[two sheds]

Oh look, another misleading Guardian headline:

'Stop destroying our party' John McDonnell's plea to supporters

With a subhead:

Shadow chancellor issues direct appeal to Jeremy Corbyn’s opponents amid claims member of staff broke into MP’s office

So not actually his 'supporters' but the PLP supporters, and repeats the 'broke into MP's office' slur for good measure.

 

[JHE]

Say what you like about Corbyn, there's plenty to criticise but damn he's got some cajones...

...and not just for socks, pants and membership lists. Many of Corbyn's cajones will be full of old leaflets, pamphlets, back copies of London Labour Briefing and press clippings going back to the 70s.

 

[William of Walworth]

That just looks like you're denying it, though, or being paranoid. I like the blog? linked to recently that lists each of the accusations and succinctly the specifics of why it's wrong. After you've demonstrated that you can start looking at why.

I'd like to see that blog, I've missed it I think. Could someone please put the link up again? Thanks.

 

[Casually Red]

That just looks like you're denying it, though, or being paranoid. I like the blog? linked to recently that lists each of the accusations and succinctly the specifics of why it's wrong. After you've demonstrated that you can start looking at why.

As has been stated before here it's not paranoia when they really are all out to get you . This is an actual establishment conspiracy . That needs explained to people .
I do agree that the accusations ultimately need to be addressed and refuted , such as in the blog, but to micromanage them from the top is utterly futile in my view . And even self defeating . It's symptoms rather than cause .