Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Lord Camomile]

You appear to consistently prefer to listen to the arguments of the party hierarchy and the media. I prefer to listen to people.

And that's why youll never get anywhere in politics

 

[The39thStep]

If he leads a general election campaign it will be all about spending too much before the financial crisis again

Not sure that argument is as key as it once was tbh.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Burnham's northern roots will go some way to reconnect with old labour heartlands I think, his work with Hillsborough helped, he has multi department experience , strong ties to the unions and a progressive socialist, I think he would be an ideal opposition candidate at this time.

Let me get this right: You think that the fact of his place of birth will make enough of a difference in the heartlands to erase the fact of his Blairite bullshit over the years? "Vote for our Andy! He's got proper Northern grit, even if he is a southerner-loving Westminster knobshine!".

 

[Rob Ray]

1 sacked, seven resigned.

Interesting to stack them up using the Labour Loyalty doc that got leaked a while back

• Hilary Benn: Core Group negative
• Gloria Piero: Core Group negative
• Ian Murray: Core Group negative
• Lucy Powell: Core Group negative
• Kerry McCarthy: Core Group negative

• Heidi Alexander: Neutral
• Seema Malhotra: Neutral

• Lilian Greenwood: Core Group Plus

From this it looks like the only major loss is Greenwood, while most of the the rest have been among his most trenchant critics throughout. Also less than ten will be a disappointment for them, that's what the Graun was trailing earlier.

 

[agricola]

Let me get this right: You think that the fact of his place of birth will make enough of a difference in the heartlands to erase the fact of his Blairite bullshit over the years? "Vote for our Andy! He's got proper Northern grit, even if he is a southerner-loving Westminster knobshine!".

To be fair, Burnham is at least likely to admit he was wrong in the past - or rather would be a lot more likely to admit he was wrong than any of the others.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You'd rather have a manikin with a red rosette as leader.

5!

4!

3!

2!

1!

Thunderburnhams are GO!!!!

 

[The39thStep]

Let me get this right: You think that the fact of his place of birth will make enough of a difference in the heartlands to erase the fact of his Blairite bullshit over the years? "Vote for our Andy! He's got proper Northern grit, even if he is a southerner-loving Westminster knobshine!".

Burnham isn't seen as a Blairite around the North West and from what I can remember he recieved a lot of support up here in the leadership campaign . He is struggling in the mayoral nominations because a) he is seen as a scouser b)he was against the Manchester Heath plan whereby GM have the health budget c) opportunism in trying to take on what is still a well organised local party machine.

 

[weltweit]

Can people please stop talking about Burnham, Labour would be unelectable with Burnham at the helm.

 

[The39thStep]

Can people please stop talking about Burnham, Labour would be unelectable with Burnham at the helm.

Unelectable now tbh

 

[Rob Ray]

This is the remaining shadow cabinet that haven't declared (or I haven't seen it) at 2.46pm, as on the loyalty list. If they're holding true to the "10 to go" they leaked to the Graun, I guess expect all hostile and core negative to resign up til about 6pm, when the papers start getting put to bed? If there's no more losses today they've underperformed.

Core plus
Tom Watson MP - though worth noting he very publicly alibied himself. If he didn't know this was coming I'd be surprised.
Owen Smith MP
Lisa Nandy MP
Vernon Coaker MP

Neutral
Angela Eagle MP
Chris Bryant MP
Nia Griffith MP
Kate Green MP
John Healey MP

Hostile
Rosie Winterton MP
Luciana Berger MP

Core negative
Maria Eagle MP
Jonathan Ashworth MP

Unlisted
Baroness Smith of Basildon
Lord Bassam of Brighton
Lord Falconer of Thoroton

 

[J Ed]

Unelectable now tbh

Well if this is true then internal sabotage is no small factor in this equation. Corbyn has been attacked from day one by the PLP, who are totally at odds with the leadership and membership, and they have done so in concert with a media which has unsuccessfully attempted to terrorise the Labour membership into moving away from Corbyn. Perhaps an aborted coup attempt and some subsequent purging is just what is needed.

 

[killer b]

The confrontation needed to happen, but without the membership swinging in behind him he's nowhere. Any news on what the CLPs in Leeds Central, Ashfield, Edinburgh South plan to do? If the members in Stoke on Trent Central are going to bring their MP to heel?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh that'll put the cat among the pigeons

 

[The39thStep]

Well if this is true then internal sabotage is no small factor in this equation. Corbyn has been attacked from day one by the PLP, who are totally at odds with the leadership and membership, and they have done so in concert with a media which has unsuccessfully attempted to terrorise the Labour membership into moving away from Corbyn. Perhaps an aborted coup attempt and some subsequent purging is just what is needed.

Their problem simply is that they cannot square the circle with the middle class and working classes. Especially over the EU and immigration.

 

[Sifta]

I suspect that the Hillsborough stuff means that Burnham has had some recent contact with real people.

 

[The39thStep]

This is the remaining shadow cabinet that haven't declared (or I haven't seen it) at 2.46pm, as on the loyalty list. If they're holding true to the "10 to go" they leaked to the Graun, I guess expect all hostile and core negative to resign up til about 6pm, when the papers start getting put to bed? If there's no more losses today they've underperformed.

Core plus
Tom Watson MP
Owen Smith MP
Lisa Nandy MP
Vernon Coaker MP

Neutral
Angela Eagle MP
Chris Bryant MP
Nia Griffith MP
Kate Green MP
John Healey MP

Hostile
Rosie Winterton MP
Luciana Berger MP

Core negative
Maria Eagle MP
Jonathan Ashworth MP

Unlisted
Baroness Smith of Basildon
Lord Bassam of Brighton
Lord Falconer of Thoroton

Watson is still at Glastonbury isn't he or as one wag pointed out he'll be the first person to leave Glastonbury to go and wade into a bigger field of shit.

 

[Rob Ray]

Watson is still at Glastonbury isn't he or as one wag pointed out he'll be the first person to leave Glastonbury to go and wade into a bigger field of shit.

Yeah he was taking pics and such throughout. Back in London now though, just in time to be totally beyond reproach.

 

[Pickman's model]

Their problem simply is that they cannot square the circle with the middle class and working classes. Especially over the EU and immigration.

Seems to me the greater problem for the lp remains 'the political class' of upper middle class private educated oxbridge graduates who have never done a day's work in their lives and treat the w/c as ballot fodder. Without any genuine connection with or understanding of the pressures facing many many working class - and indeed many middle class - families events inside the wm bubble will continue to assume a higher priority for them than the lives of their constituents

 

[The39thStep]

Perhaps now is the time to bring those mugs out again ?

 

[Wilf]

They had no reasonable way of getting rid, though now the right's gone for broke with a coup attempt they'll have less of a moral shield against reselection mutterings.

It would have been better if Corbyn and the new party members had done something active to start engaging with pissed off working class voters, some of whom have voted ukip and many more who voted out on Thursday. He might be up against some of the least principled and slippery politicians of the last 50 years, but he and his fans haven't built anything as a counterweight. That's the trouble, this will all play out as an internal party game, one which he will probably win though the party will be evermore fucked as a result. If corbynism was worth doing it needed to take the party out beyond Westminster.

 

[Tankus]

Yeah he was taking pics and such throughout. Back in London now though, just in time to be totally beyond reproach.

Funny that ....he was on holiday taking pics ( I've got an alibi ,guv ,look , theres me in me shorts in lanzaroti ) when Dugher was fired by Corbyn for plotting back in Jan...

Got a bit of form hasn't he

 

[Pickman's model]

It would have been better if Corbyn and the new party members had done something active to start engaging with pissed off working class voters, some of whom have voted ukip and many more who voted out on Thursday. He might be up against some of the least principled and slippery politicians of the last 50 years, but he and his fans haven't built anything as a counterweight. That's the trouble, this will all play out as an internal party game, one which he will probably win though the party will be evermore fucked as a result. If corbynism was worth doing it needed to take the party out beyond Westminster.

And arguably beyond Islington too

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps now is the time to bring those mugs out again ?

They're all coming out they said

 

[Rob Ray]

If corbynism was worth doing

It wasn't, imv - warmed up Keynesianism is as much of a busted flush as Blairism in terms of dealing with working class concerns. But the whole thing makes for entertaining political drama on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[gosub]

Apparently the Mail on Sunday have tipped Jeremy Hunt as next tory leader.


A bit of light relief.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

It would have been better if Corbyn and the new party members had done something active to start engaging with pissed off working class voters

Corbyn has been out and about a fair bit in the lead up to the referendum (albeit largely ignored by the media) but yes, there is a need to engage more (and i don't think the party as a whole knows how the heck to do this - other perhaps than anti-immigration mugs)

Corbyn has done more to talk to union members - than previous leaders have, but there's a heck of a lot of the working class that have fallen out of the labour movement as well as the Labour movement.

casualisation and fragmentation of workplaces is a big element in this - some unions have dealt with this better than others. some have pretty much gone along with the bosses' divide and rule allowing permanent workers to resent casual / agency workers for undercutting their pay and conditions, and casual / agency workers to resent permanent workers for having better conditions.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Their problem simply is that they cannot square the circle with the middle class and working classes. Especially over the EU and immigration.

I think that is true for some; though they could always fall back on George Orwell's advice to go with the working class as they'd have nothing to lose but the aitches. For others (e.g. the true Blairites) it is the impossible task of squaring capital with labour; not helped by their fundamental preference for capital.

There was an interesting bit at the end of the lunchtime radio news, where a commentator was offering the opinion that there could be a massive restructuring of party politics with what he described as left Tories and social democrats coming together and the emergence of a socialist euro-skeptic Labour party. I think he has the labels wrong - the Labour MPs able to get into bed with the Tories would not be social democrats in any meaningful sense, indeed the emergent euro-skeptic Labour party would probably be more accurate described as social democratic - but we could see something very big going in terms of big party politics. Interestingly/amusingly he made no mention of the Liberals...but then again why would he?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Rob Ray]

Apparently the Mail on Sunday have tipped Jeremy Hunt as next tory leader.

A bit of light relief.

When was the last time someone went from health to PM? Going through the list it looks like Chamberlain, unless I missed someone.

 

[mauvais]

It would have been better if Corbyn and the new party members had done something active to start engaging with pissed off working class voters, some of whom have voted ukip and many more who voted out on Thursday. He might be up against some of the least principled and slippery politicians of the last 50 years, but he and his fans haven't built anything as a counterweight. That's the trouble, this will all play out as an internal party game, one which he will probably win though the party will be evermore fucked as a result. If corbynism was worth doing it needed to take the party out beyond Westminster.

He and they are up against not just contemporary adversaries but what, 20-40 years of accumulated narrative debt in terms of failing to engage the necessary quarters of the public. You can argue that their direction of travel is still neutral or negative but it's a bit steep to pin the entire thing on them.