Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Pickman's model]

When was the last time someone went from health to PM? Going through the list it looks like Chamberlain, unless I missed someone.

Yeh and they saw the error of their ways after that

 

[killer b]

There was an interesting bit at the end of the lunchtime radio news, where a commentator was offering the opinion that there could be a massive restructuring of party politics with what he described as left Tories and social democrats coming together and the emergence of a socialist euro-skeptic Labour party. I think he has the labels wrong - the Labour MPs able to get into bed with the Tories would not be social democrats in any meaningful sense, indeed the emergent euro-skeptic Labour party would probably be more accurate described as social democratic - but we could see something very big going in terms of big party politics. Interestingly/amusingly he made no mention of the Liberals...but then again why would he?

I think this would suit the MPs just fine, but how would it work outside Westminster? I don't think anything more than the tiniest number of Labour or Tory members would be prepared to enter into a party with the people they've been fighting politically all their lives.

 

[agricola]

I think that is true for some; though they could always fall back on George Orwell's advice to go with the working class as they'd have nothing to lose but the aitches. For others (e.g. the true Blairites) it is the impossible task of squaring capital with labour; not helped by their fundamental preference for capital.

There was an interesting bit at the end of the lunchtime radio news, where a commentator was offering the opinion that there could be a massive restructuring of party politics with what he described as left Tories and social democrats coming together and the emergence of a socialist euro-skeptic Labour party. I think he has the labels wrong - the Labour MPs able to get into bed with the Tories would not be social democrats in any meaningful sense, indeed the emergent euro-skeptic Labour party would probably be more accurate described as social democratic - but we could see something very big going in terms of big party politics. Interestingly/amusingly he made no mention of the Liberals...but then again why would he?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Peter Oborne has been suggesting this new grouping of "progressives" for some time, admittedly though he thought Cameron would lead it after winning the referendum.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I think this would suit the MPs just fine, but how would it work outside Westminster? I don't think anything more than the tiniest number of Labour or Tory members would be prepared to enter into a party with the people they've been fighting politically all their lives.

The appeal would be to the 'sensible centre ground' to come together for the good of the nation to protect it (cue reference to the NHS and entrepreneurship) from the excesses of both left and right. I'm sure there are Labour party members outside of Westminster who this would appeal to, especially if the alternative placed an emphasis on democratic participation (or even control?); after all they've just seen what that delivers.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[chilango]

The appeal would be to the 'sensible centre ground' to come together for the good of the nation to protect it (cue reference to the NHS and entrepreneurship) from the excesses of both left and right. I'm sure there are Labour party members outside of Westminster who this would appeal to, especially if the alternative placed an emphasis on democratic participation (or even control?); after all they've just seen what that delivers.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

We've seen how well that works in Italy.

 

[Wilf]

It wasn't, imv - warmed up Keynesianism is as much of a busted flush as Blairism in terms of dealing with working class concerns. But the whole thing makes for entertaining political drama on a Sunday afternoon.

I agree. My partner is a 3 quidder and I went to one of the corbyn mass meetings with her. All very amiable and a nice contrast to austerity, but it was like watching a 1960s political tribute act. I'm amazed how little else there is in corbynism, no obvious ideas. Again, just trying to judge it within the logic of parliamentary politics, it's so unimaginative and has no clear strategy for gaining power.

 

[Rob Ray]

BBC's been handed a bunch of emails suggesting the "Corbyn camp" may have been sabotaging the Labour Remain campaign. That might be pretty damaging if true, though the only actual pullout thus far (ie. the most interesting bit) seems to be on the weak side, mostly implicating Seamus Milne.

A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

 

[The39thStep]

Someone's just told me that Rick Astley is number one in the album charts . What a week!

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone's just told me that Rick Astley is number one in the album charts . What a week!

In the album charts? Has the world gone mad?

 

[Wilf]

He and they are up against not just contemporary adversaries but what, 20-40 years of accumulated narrative debt in terms of failing to engage the necessary quarters of the public. You can argue that their direction of travel is still neutral or negative but it's a bit steep to pin the entire thing on them.

Well, I'm not pinning the Hilary benn thing on them, just being in a poor position to respond to it. the bigger picture though is that its been obvious the Labour Party and most of our institutions abandoned whole swathes of the working class over the last 20-30 years, but decisively so in the Blair era. What is Labour's answer to that, what is Corbyn's answer? Is Corbynisn in any sense a strategy to re-engage? Not that I can see.

In one sense its unfair to blame corbyn for not having an answer to that long term decline, to labour only speaking to the middle classes, Labour abandoning the poor. But in one sense it isn't - even if he is an accidental leader he's been seeking to push a left agenda in the party for decades, but isn't actually making it into an active strategy. Its a left Labourism in an era of low union membership and social democracy in an era of rampant globalisation.

 

[treelover]

BBC's been handed a bunch of emails suggesting the "Corbyn camp" may have been sabotaging the Labour Remain campaign. That might be pretty damaging if true, though the only actual pullout thus far (ie. the most interesting bit) seems to be on the weak side, mostly implicating Seamus Milne.

Appointing Milne was a disaster, and made me think twice about Corbyns judgement.

 

[The39thStep]

In the album charts? Has the world gone mad?

Who is Tom Odell ?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

BBC's been handed a bunch of emails suggesting the "Corbyn camp" may have been sabotaging the Labour Remain campaign. That might be pretty damaging if true, though the only actual pullout thus far (ie. the most interesting bit) seems to be on the weak side, mostly implicating Seamus Milne.

There is no actual content in that article beyond 'sources say they [the emails] show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role'. Well I'm sure such sources wouldn't be difficult to find. I suspect that if Corbyn had toured the country constantly in a luminous Remain blimp, continuously showering the populace with increasingly dire warnings about the consequences of voting leave, 'sources' would have blamed him for alienating traditional supporters. There are 'sources' that want him out and aren't fussed about how it is done.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[agricola]

BBC's been handed a bunch of emails suggesting the "Corbyn camp" may have been sabotaging the Labour Remain campaign. That might be pretty damaging if true, though the only actual pullout thus far (ie. the most interesting bit) seems to be on the weak side, mostly implicating Seamus Milne.

It is a bit sad that pointing out reform of EU immigration is (was) impossible counts as "sabotaging the Labour Remain campaign".

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Do the blairites seriously think that JC appearing alongside ham-face campaigning for business as usual would seriously have re-connected the party with the voters who have gone for 'leave'?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Do the blairites seriously think that JC appearing alongside ham-face campaigning for business as usual would seriously have re-connected the party with the voters who have gone for 'leave'?

I think it's pretty clear they have absolutely no fucking clue what would reconnect with the voters.

 

[Mr Moose]

Do the blairites seriously think that JC appearing alongside ham-face campaigning for business as usual would seriously have re-connected the party with the voters who have gone for 'leave'?

No but Jeremy's 'I like free movement, don't blame the migrants' line probably went down like a house on fire.

It's of little comfort to either the voters he didn't reach or the supporters who didn't get the result that he may only have said the former in half-hearted support of the EU.

He lacked the skills to address people's concerns and say how they could be sorted within the free movement he professed to like. He did not 'lead'. An opportunity missed.

You don't have to be blairite to see he fundamentally lacks the political skills to figure this puzzle out. He is an irritable charisma free zone.

Socialism and progressive thinking is so unpopular with the people it needs to help that he needs to be able to create bridges and inspire.

 

[Pickman's model]

No but Jeremy's 'I like free movement, don't blame the migrants' line probably went down like a house on fire.

It's of little comfort to either the voters he didn't reach or the supporters who didn't get the result that he may only have said the former in half-hearted support of the EU.

He lacked the skills to address people's concerns and say how they could be sorted within the free movement he professed to like. He did not 'lead'. An opportunity missed.

You don't have to be blairite to see he fundamentally lacks the political skills to figure this puzzle out. He is an irritable charisma free zone.

Socialism and progressive thinking is so unpopular with the people it needs to help that he needs to be able to create bridges and inspire.

I had not previously noticed quite what a right wing shit you are.

 

[Tankus]

The whole country's been rickrolled

Someone's just told me that Rick Astley is number one in the album charts . What a week!

Someone ,somewhere is laughing like a drain

 

[Puddy_Tat]

No but Jeremy's 'I like free movement, don't blame the migrants' line probably went down like a house on fire.

The line I remember hearing JC say was along the lines that pressure on schools / NHS / services is due to tory cuts not immigrants

Although I suspect most of the media didn't report this

He did not 'lead'.

dunno really.

i'm not trying to argue that JC is perfect, and I'm not privy to his thought process. But I get the idea he sees himself more as a convenor of representatives than 'the boss', which is what people have been seem to have been led to expect from a party leader / potential PM.

Socialism and progressive thinking is so unpopular with the people it needs to help that he needs to be able to create bridges and inspire.

i'm not sure i know the answer to this one either.

or where the left in general or the labour party in particular is going to find someone to do this.

the blairites seem to want to do it by abandoning socialism and progressive thinking...

 

[agricola]

No but Jeremy's 'I like free movement, don't blame the migrants' line probably went down like a house on fire.

It's of little comfort to either the voters he didn't reach or the supporters who didn't get the result that he may only have said the former in half-hearted support of the EU.

The problem is though that substantive reform of EU migration is not possible whilst we are in the EU - free movement of labour is the right it (the EU) would defend more than anything else. To even go down the line of "we will reform it" is doomed - in the long term because it is impossible, and in the short term because if you make that an issue then Leave inevitably had a far better, far more truthful and most importantly blatantly obvious argument that Leave is the way to do it. The only way to defend it (free movement) is to point to the advantages it brings and to point out that the negatives ascribed to it are in fact down to the Government's own decisions - scrapping the Impact Fund, not funding services properly, (edit) promoting agency / casual labour etc etc. That is what Corbyn did.

He lacked the skills to address people's concerns and say how they could be sorted within the free movement he professed to like. He did not 'lead'. An opportunity missed.

You don't have to be blairite to see he fundamentally lacks the political skills to figure this puzzle out. He is an irritable charisma free zone.

Socialism and progressive thinking is so unpopular with the people it needs to help that he needs to be able to create bridges and inspire.

TBH it is a bit troubling to see how many people demand to be led.

 

[Mr Moose]

I had not previously noticed quite what a right wing shit you are.

Whilst it's all too evident what a dickhead you are.

Are we going to re-run this 'can't get rid of Ed, it's just a Blairite plot, we will win' stuff we had before the election?

Corbyn's capabilities are not one and the same with the politics of the matter. No return to new labour, but no endless losing either please.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whilst it's all too evident what a dickhead you are.

Are we going to re-run this 'can't get rid of Ed, it's just a Blairite plot, we will win' stuff we had before the election?

Corbyn's capabilities are not one and the same with the politics of the matter. No return to new labour, but no endless losing either please.

You dish it out but you don't like taking it.

 

[gosub]

In the album charts? Has the world gone mad?

I got rick-rolled at a wedding the other week - during the ceremony.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whilst it's all too evident what a dickhead you are.

Are we going to re-run this 'can't get rid of Ed, it's just a Blairite plot, we will win' stuff we had before the election?

Corbyn's capabilities are not one and the same with the politics of the matter. No return to new labour, but no endless losing either please.

What's the alternative to Corbyn if it isn't the bleating Blairite scum you affect to oppose but act like such a useful idiot for.

 

[weltweit]

 

[miktheword]

he didn't need a well placed source, he needed a tv.
That there was conflicting legal advice was made on Sunday Politics / Marr show this morning after Neil said he thought Corbyn was automatically on.

 

[Rob Ray]

Coaker's gone, he was supposedly a Core plus, though had fallen out with Corbyn over Trident. Still four "hostiles" undeclared so at this rate it could be 13+ to go (out of 30).

Hostile
Rosie Winterton MP
Luciana Berger MP

Core negative
Maria Eagle MP
Jonathan Ashworth MP

Edit: And New Statesman is "expecting" Angela Eagle, Chris Bryant and Lord Falconer to go, which would be an outright majority.

 

[stethoscope]

Agree with this from McCluskey...
Labour mutineers are betraying our national interest | Len McCluskey

Surely Labour’s priorities are first of all to ensure that Brexit is not at the expense of working people, that employment rights are secured and jobs protected. We need to fight might and main against those Conservatives who see Brexit as a mandate to introduce a free-market utopia at the expense of working people.

We also have a responsibility to speak out against racism and offer reassurance and support to people of all races and nations living in Britain today.

And we need a clear Labour perspective for life outside the EU in the years ahead, looking to the opportunities as well as the very real threats, including the opportunity for a more interventionist state acting to prevent jobs losses, acting to use public investment to shape the economy of the future and prevent jobs losses, like those looming over Tata Steel.

Instead, Hilary Benn and others have decided this is the moment to let the Tories off the hook, turn Labour inwards and try to set aside the overwhelming result of a party leadership election held less than 10 months ago.

It seems clear that this coup would have been launched irrespective of the referendum result. Anyone who thinks remain would have won the vote if Jeremy Corbyn had told traditional Labour areas that all was well with the EU and with globalisation is living in a dream world. It is easier to do that from an oligarch’s yacht or a bank boardroom than it is in our de-industrialised cities and towns.

In fact, Corbyn was honest and straightforward about a complex question. There is no more sense in blaming him than there is in blaming Margaret Hodge for the fact that her constituency was one of the very few in London to vote to leave the EU.

A new leadership election is divisive and unnecessary. But if enough MPs want one, then bring it on. I am sure that Corbyn will secure a fresh mandate. But let me make two things clear.

First, if anyone is undemocratic enough to think that there can be a new leadership election with the existing leader kept off the ballot, then they are setting the Labour party on course for a split.

And second, Unite has hitherto opposed any plans to change the party rules governing mandatory re-selection of Labour MPs. That, too, we have looked on as a divisive distraction.

But those MPs who have missed no opportunity to tweet and brief against the party’s elected leader over the last 10 months will find that their disloyalty finds no favour with party members and will make this an increasingly difficult line to hold.

 

[DotCommunist]

enemy no1 is on his back with balls exposed. Do you

a)get hoofing

b) Punch yourself in the face


answers ona postcard