little_legs
Поехали!
Hadley Freeman
Is this woman a transphobe?
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bimble
floofy
Hadley Freeman gets money from American evangelists?
If you are asserting this please try to link to some evidence. Its a bit weird otherwise.
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To be fair the vast majority of trans hostile posts on these boards have come from men, inline with the polling posted up thread.
little_legs
Поехали!
A while back the Guardian US published an open letter criticising Freeman.
Edit: I'll find the letter when I get to my laptop. It's not a secret that evangelicals are exploiting the British terfs in the mainstream media.
Edit: I'll find the letter when I get to my laptop. It's not a secret that evangelicals are exploiting the British terfs in the mainstream media.
Cloo
Banana for scale
There was a very good thread on Twitter the other day from a trans woman reiterating that trans people have never 'demanded' the removal of the word 'woman' or 'mother' etc, but they have asked could medical language reflect that some people who aren't women might need smear tests etc and make sure they get the check ups and treatment they need, and she specifically said this is fine in fact best to be 'women and people with cervixes' etc so it includes everyone.
bimble
floofy
Is that sentence your evidence for your allegation that she is funded by American evangelical xtians?
i mean, if thats all you've got i'll stop asking.
There is a real & interesting thing here, somewhere nearby, about how the worst people in the world (evangelicals, right wing extremists, the Republican Party, the Polish government, 'traditional family' promoters and all the many assorted dregs of that kind are absolutely loving this, as a wedge issue, and will leverage the hell out of it. And at the same time it is a real - and eternal - problem that some people will turn a blind eye to and even pal up with the absolute worst shitheads just because they think they are aligned on one thing.
That's what actually scares me, the leverage that is being wrung from this by properly dangerous people.
As an aside, not quite an illustration, check this out, Alex Jones just met Graham Lineham on a lesbian dating app.
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Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Just out of interest, why do you think all these left wing radfem terfs are being exploited? Why haven't they noticed? Or could it just be that they disagree with you?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
No, polling doesn't tell you which side is right and which wrong. But in this case, I think it does undermine some key claims and arguments of the gencrit lobby.
Namely:
That a more traditional view of sex and gender represents self-evident common sense. If that were so, you would expect a healthy majority of the public to subscribe to that view, but they appear not to.
That we are being steamrollered into accepting trans rights by men who refuse to listen to the views of women. How can this make sense when most women support trans rights, and are much more likely to do so than men?
Athos
Well-Known Member
I guess they'd point to the fact that pre-op trans women have access to women's changing rooms despite the fact that (as the poll shows) most women don't want that.
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Lineham's behaviour on that app is really one of the lowest points of this debate. It's an app which openly welcomes queer, trans and non binary people, some of the people he has outed to his thousands of readers said in their profile they were not out in their everyday lives. He has no idea where they live or what their circumstances are, he could cause real damage to someone doing shit like this, just because they had a profile on a queer dating app, and he, a straight man, doesn't like it.
Or could it be that their obsession with trans people has caused them to abandon any other principles and work directly with evangelicals, and the right/alt right, which many of them have chosen to do.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
They'd be missing the point. This hasn't happened because it represents the views of men and those of women have been ignored. Across the board, men are less supportive of trans rights than women.
(As an aside, though, I think there are likely methodological problems with those "what about pre-ops" questions. Repeating a question and providing more information the second time may seem to some people like an invitation to reconsider. It also puts responses unnecessarily on a scale, and so introduces a potential end-aversion bias - people avoid putting themselves on one end or another of a scale. Moreover, allowing post-op trans women, but not pre-op trans women, to use the women's loos is in reality impracticable. So the survey leaves us unsure as what women's attitudes would be wrt real world policy. Would those women who support post-op wees but not pre-op wees, given that the question is not really divisible in that way, tend to prefer on balance a come one come all policy, or would they prefer to exclude all trans women? We don't know, because the question wasn't asked.)
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Do we think this is actually Linehan? I'm not sure it passes the basic test of looking like him. What am I missing?
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Colin Hunt
Active Member
The poll shows that nearly 30% of women polled don't know whether pre-op trans women should have access to women's changing rooms. I'd say you're on pretty dodgy ground talking about what 'most women' want based on a 900 person poll in which almost 1/3 say they don't know. I'd also say that framing your post in that way is slightly disingenuous.
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
Father Ted's Graham Linehan joins queer women's dating app in stunt
A statement from the dating app said they support ‘all women and queer folk’.
metro.co.uk
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
It’s definitely him as he’s boasted about it and posted those pics himself on his shitty blog. As to whether the clip itself is genuine and not just edited slyly, I dunno, but the fact that Jones has gone to the bother of videoing printed out photos from the internet instead of displaying them digitally and has also not bothered to format them so they end up spreading over two pages - well, it strongly suggests it’s either genuine fucking old man idiocy or an extremely well thought out troll/joke
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I wonder if they got the pics from Linehan's "research" and just didn't know/care that one of them was the daring investigative journalist himself.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I doubt Jones is even aware of Linehan and his shithousery
Athos
Well-Known Member
That only holds true for those who don't consider trans women to be men.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
No, but his researchers might have been, or might have been led to him when they googled "man on lesbian dating ap".
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I doubt he or they care either way
Athos
Well-Known Member
The poll shows there's not majority support amongst women for pre-op trans women's access to female changing rooms (and a plurality that's actively against it). As to the sample size, 900 seems reasonable, and I note that the objection wasn't raised to counter earlier claims that it demonstrates women's trans inclusivity.
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hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
As an aside to that aside, I briefly forgot the difference between Alex Jones and Alex James and was wondering what possible connection the Britpop cheese man could have to all this.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
It needs more people who are trans, presenting programs on the Television, especially the BBC. For cis people it is quite a culture shock to see trans people. It will take quite a time for it to be seen as "normal". Celebrations such as pride are certainly working. Gay people are now almost totally accepted. Trans is much more difficult to put across. It needs a constant positive view of trans people being shown on the Television. Drip, drip, drip.
As for the Sport issue, in my opinion, Trans people arent doing themselves any good by entering cis-female sporting competions, with quite often a much stronger body and winning everything, because they are alienating themselves, not only alienating themselves but creating dislike for themselves, It is not good to do sports. There ought to be a Trans Sport section, this would promote publicity and would be benign, especially if there were some great positive characters in Trans Sport on the Television.
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co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I haven't read the post you're responding to so I don't know if you've correctly paraphrased what has been said but this ^^ is a wrong and misleading characterisation of what radical gender critical feminism says about men. It does not say that men are inherently violent.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Currently, in Ladies fashions, and especially with shoes and boots, Ladies are wearing boots and shoes that are almost fully masculine. Of course it is a trend that has happened with women wanting more money in the workplace and dressing like men to show they can do an equal job. The range of clothes goes almost the full gamut, from feminine through androgenous and into masculine. Conversely there has been a trend towards more androgenous fashions for men, but, men wont wear it because a lot of them are masculine anyway and the ones who would wear it are frightened of meeting with violence. I would go so far as to say it isnt Ladies whom are an opponent of trans-women but is in objective terms, Men. It is violence from men that is the opponent of Trans-women. Violence friom Men against Women is also still happening and was the reason for many protests this year. I have to say, in my opinion, violence, ego and delusion are three of the main enemies of individual liberty.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Hell, seems like just the other day a bunch of parents got freaked out because a kids' telly presenter had a minor disability.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Which disability?Hell, seems like just the other day a bunch of parents got freaked out because a kids' telly presenter had a minor disability.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
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