dylans
overlord of all acorns
I never mentioned toilets.
Is this woman a transphobe?
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HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Open plan changing rooms? I've never been in one that didn't have cubicles. I'm not sure i would go in one anyway, would find a toilet to change in.
The dick waving in Spar though, fucking outrageous.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I meant a spa.
Los Angeles authorities have charged a 52-year-old with indecent exposure at a popular Korean spa that was the subject of a viral Instagram post earlier this summer.
The LA police department (LAPD) announced late on Thursday that it had put out an arrest warrant for Darren Merager, who is facing five felony counts of indecent exposure at Wi Spa in the Koreatown neighborhood.
The charges, filed on Monday, come two months after a viral Instagram video from a woman who filmed herself confronting Wi Spa staff about seeing a “man” naked in front of women and girls in the women’s section of the facility: “There are other girls down there, other women who are highly offended for what they just saw, and you did nothing, absolutely nothing,” she can be heard saying in the 24 June video.
Wi Spa staffers respond they had to comply with the law and do not discriminate based on gender identity.
Person charged with indecent exposure at LA spa after viral Instagram video
Charges filed two months after woman’s claims about Wi Spa sparked anti-trans protests
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
You were at least being slightly original when you were supporting sex trafficking last time you were here.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I think that's libellous.
I meant a spa.
Los Angeles authorities have charged a 52-year-old with indecent exposure at a popular Korean spa that was the subject of a viral Instagram post earlier this summer.
The LA police department (LAPD) announced late on Thursday that it had put out an arrest warrant for Darren Merager, who is facing five felony counts of indecent exposure at Wi Spa in the Koreatown neighborhood.
The charges, filed on Monday, come two months after a viral Instagram video from a woman who filmed herself confronting Wi Spa staff about seeing a “man” naked in front of women and girls in the women’s section of the facility: “There are other girls down there, other women who are highly offended for what they just saw, and you did nothing, absolutely nothing,” she can be heard saying in the 24 June video.
Wi Spa staffers respond they had to comply with the law and do not discriminate based on gender identity.
Person charged with indecent exposure at LA spa after viral Instagram video
Charges filed two months after woman’s claims about Wi Spa sparked anti-trans protestswww.theguardian.com
So you're talking about something which has happened once, on the other side of the world, and which resulted in someone being charged wih an offence. I'm not really sure what this has got to do with a trans women trying on some clothes in a cubicle in the UK. Naked spas aren't really a thing here are they?
editor
hiraethified
It's certainly an unpleasant accusation but you should read this before consulting a solicitor:
Basic UK libel law for idiots by Adam Porter
Basic UK libel law for idiots, urban75, one of the UK's busiest online magazines featuring photography, short stories and useless games!
www.urban75.org
bimble
floofy
Thread is a shit Punch and Judy show. Which is fine because there’s no place on here for any other kind of conversation in this area, I think it’s interesting that the BBC and Sussex uni and the Green Party are all sort of turning on themselves & imploding in related ways at the moment but imaginary people called Shirley waving their dicks around scaring children ftw.
I won’t have any man telling me that I have to agree to be locked up with a man (or put in a mental health locked ward, or a police cell, or share a toilet or a changing room with men), to protect their right to identify as a woman.
I don’t think that men who identify as women actually become women if they take hormones and have surgery. They become men who have modified their bodies and taken female hormones and are choosing to identify as women.
I see nothing wrong with referring to trans women or men as their chosen pronoun. I think they should be provided separate prison accommodation and toilets etc. And I absolutely defend their right to live in peace and with respect, however they choose to look and identify or live their lives.
But when it comes to the hard reality, I support womens rights to defend ourselves from men raping and harassing and murdering us, before mens rights to identify as women.
I don’t think that men who identify as women actually become women if they take hormones and have surgery. They become men who have modified their bodies and taken female hormones and are choosing to identify as women.
I see nothing wrong with referring to trans women or men as their chosen pronoun. I think they should be provided separate prison accommodation and toilets etc. And I absolutely defend their right to live in peace and with respect, however they choose to look and identify or live their lives.
But when it comes to the hard reality, I support womens rights to defend ourselves from men raping and harassing and murdering us, before mens rights to identify as women.
So what is a trans women supposed to do if she needs the toilet or to get changed?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
and then there's the always conveniently overlooked rights of trans men and their right to safety
Use the gender neutral facilities provided!
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
So what's your solution to that then?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
dunno why you are asking me that
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Cos you brought the subject up
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
the solution to inequality? i don't think so
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I'm not going to say what first came into my head. It wouldn't help. I despair.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
not sure why you posted this. shit or get off the pot
How many places have gender neutral facilities?
Campaign for them. I will join you.
It took disabled people decades to win accessible toilets, then another couple of decades to implement them and even now many places don't have them because they are listed or the architecture doesn't support an accessible toilet. What about trans women who want to use the toilet today, what should they do?
Sorry Edie but this is such a shit argument. The idea that a campaign to force every pub, cafe, shop and other public space to undertake significant building work to install additional changing rooms and toilets to accommodate trans people is something that's ever likely to be successful is disingenuous to say the least, especially as most people don't care about trans people using toilets and changing rooms inline with their gender as they have for decades.
At least be honest and concede that were you to get what you want then trans women will have to use the men's or not use public facilties at all and if there are any negative consequences for trans people arising from that then it's just tough shit.
At least be honest and concede that were you to get what you want then trans women will have to use the men's or not use public facilties at all and if there are any negative consequences for trans people arising from that then it's just tough shit.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
They should use the mens because they are men. They could even use the urinals.
To be honest, I don't really care which toilet they use. I don't really care which toilet anyone uses. I think there are much bigger issues such as prisons, domestic violence refuges, rape crisis centres, hospital wards, sports competitions etc that are more important.
There is also a larger point that women's and gay peoples identities are being erased. Lesbian dating sites are increassingly expected to indulge anatomically male trans women claiming to be lesbians and are called bigots when they object to what are really heterosexual men with dicks and facial hair demanding relationships with them.
Gay people are increasingly being told that the identity many of them fought for as SAME SEX ATTRACTED is no longer longer valid and has been replaced with same gender attraction, a definition that leads to the absurd situation where lesbians are attacked or labelled as genital obsessives" for rejecting potential partners with penises or gay men are called bigots for rejecting trans men with vaginas. If biological sex is no longer the basis for sexual attraction, if everything is now fluid and based on identity and something as subjective and undefinable as "gender" if an anatomically intact male person with a dick can call themselves a lesbian, then homosexuality no longer exists.
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Trans activist: Hello pub owning person, will you sign my petition. I want to force you to build a seperate toilet for trans women.
Pub owning person: What really?
Trans activist: Yes and then when it's built your staff will have to make sure that everyone who goes in the women's toilets has female genitals and xx chromosones
Pub owning person: What, that's daft, we've had a trans women who's a regular for years, she uses the women's loos, no-ones ever complained
Trans activist: Well she can't anymore she needs her own toilet.
Pub owning person: Is that what trans women want?
Trans activist: No
Pub owning person: Then why should I build a new toilet?
Trans activist: The gender criticals say so.
Pub owning person: Who on earth are they?
Trans activist: A couple of thousand people on the internet, they say you are putting women at risk.
Pub owning person: Why, wait, has something happend, have women been attacked or something.
Trans activist: No.
Pub owning person: Then how am I putting women at risk.
Trans activist: It might happen.
Pub owning person: You want me to spend tens of thouands of pounds building a new toilet for one customer because some people on the internet are worried she might attack someone one day.
Transactivist: Yes, will you sign my petition.
I don't have high hopes for this campaign.
Pub owning person: What really?
Trans activist: Yes and then when it's built your staff will have to make sure that everyone who goes in the women's toilets has female genitals and xx chromosones
Pub owning person: What, that's daft, we've had a trans women who's a regular for years, she uses the women's loos, no-ones ever complained
Trans activist: Well she can't anymore she needs her own toilet.
Pub owning person: Is that what trans women want?
Trans activist: No
Pub owning person: Then why should I build a new toilet?
Trans activist: The gender criticals say so.
Pub owning person: Who on earth are they?
Trans activist: A couple of thousand people on the internet, they say you are putting women at risk.
Pub owning person: Why, wait, has something happend, have women been attacked or something.
Trans activist: No.
Pub owning person: Then how am I putting women at risk.
Trans activist: It might happen.
Pub owning person: You want me to spend tens of thouands of pounds building a new toilet for one customer because some people on the internet are worried she might attack someone one day.
Transactivist: Yes, will you sign my petition.
I don't have high hopes for this campaign.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It may well not be what Edie is thinking of, but one way of providing gender neutral facilities (at least, as far as things like pub toilets are concerned) is simply to remove the signs on all of the doors and do a few things like making sure that all cubicles actually have working locks and so on. This does not cost tens of thousands of pounds.
To be frank, I just don’t prioritise the toilet issue for men who identify as women over Women’s rights to protect ourselves against male violence.
Men murder, rape, and sexually harass women daily. In the face of that femicide, men who identify as women using a gender neutral toilet is not comparable.
You are prioritising men’s feelings over women’s lives. I object.
Men murder, rape, and sexually harass women daily. In the face of that femicide, men who identify as women using a gender neutral toilet is not comparable.
You are prioritising men’s feelings over women’s lives. I object.
Athos
Well-Known Member
That's not entirely fair. There's a risk to trans women - whom I accept you consider to be men - from being forced to use men's toilets (unless and until toilets are gender neutral). I get how many women don't consider that risk anything to do with for feminism (any more than any of the myriad risks some men pose to other vulnerable males), but it is not just a matter of feelings.
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The scale is incomparable. And the problem solvable with gender neutral facilities.
That is where the campaign should focus, and I would support that, not in access to female protected facilities, sports, prisons, hospitals and refuges. The fact it is focused on accessing womens space is because it is concerned with forcing an ideology (trans women are women) not just safety.
Even if it is a safety issue, which I accept, why should the safety of 1% men who identify as women be placed ahead of 52% of the population born as women?! That’s misogyny. I reject it.
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