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Is this woman a transphobe?

8ball said:
We can’t know much about how a newborn experiences it either. I’m not convinced this analysis really relates well to humans in general, though. It seems like a desperate attempt to erase an element of our animal nature. The left does that a lot, and it always strikes me as a fools’ errand
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We also can't know what a newborn experiences, true. Notwithstanding that some people claim memories of their very early life. I don't see how this has anything to do with erasing anything, though. Knowing what an animal or a newborn is experiencing was never there in the first place.
 
Raheem said:
We also can't know what a newborn experiences, true. Notwithstanding that some people claim memories of their very early life. I don't see how this has anything to do with erasing anything, though. Knowing what an animal or a newborn is experiencing was never there in the first place.
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What I mean is that attempts to take things like emotions and to try to embed their fundamentals in culture is an attempt to avoid some of the less palatable truths about what humans are - partly as a reaction to the traumas of the last century where ideas in this
area were used in grotesque ways
It seems to me like another route towards postulating ideas of human perfectibility, though, and they don’t lead to nice places.
 
Raheem said:
Unlikely.
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Raheem said:
We also can't know what a newborn experiences, true. Notwithstanding that some people claim memories of their very early life. I don't see how this has anything to do with erasing anything, though. Knowing what an animal or a newborn is experiencing was never there in the first place.
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But we DO know about all these experiences, because they have been studied for decades...centuries in some cases. And implicitly ‘understood’ for millennia because every mother has given birth and everyone has experienced childbirth at a very young age
 
Raheem said:
You can only ever study your own experiences.
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That's soooo wrong, it's hard to know where to begin.:D

What to recommend as reading? GA Bradshaw's Elephants on the Edge is a decent start, applying psychology and psychiatry ideas developed for humans, such as PTSD, to explain what happens to elephants as their habitats and societies are destroyed.

It works. Why? Because we're really not so different. We may not be able to talk to them directly, but that doesn't mean we can't have any understanding.
 
Spanner said:
I agree with this if you mean: the only way to understand your OWN place in the world is through self-reflection.
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I agree with it only if you're talking about philosophical solipsism, which is all very well but doesn't get us anywhere with anything, and ultimately isn't really particularly interesting.
 
I
littlebabyjesus said:
That's soooo wrong, it's hard to know where to begin.:D

What to recommend as reading? GA Bradshaw's Elephants on the Edge is a decent start, applying psychology and psychiatry ideas developed for humans, such as PTSD, to explain what happens to elephants as their habitats and societies are destroyed.

It works. Why? Because we're really not so different. We may not be able to talk to them directly, but that doesn't mean we can't have any understanding.
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Most of the elephants would disagree with you. You can tell from the doubt they communicate with their tusks.
 
Border Reiver said:
Having read the actual words she used I note that she claims that she supports the "single sex exemptions" in the law. With one small exception there are no single sex exemptions that do not apply to persons with a Gender Recognition Certificate. There is also an understanding that people transitioning have access to female places if they are fulfilling the requirement to live in the target gender for two years.

Whether unwittingly or not she is refusing to recognise the clear legal rights of certain persons with a Y chromosome to occupy female areas. This is unlawful; as unlawful as excluding people on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality.
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I appreciate the clarification. Can I ask, being highly aware that this is a sensitive issue, why do some natural born women wish to create spaces where they alone are welcome? Is it because they do not accept some trans women? All trans women?
 
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bmd said:
I appreciate the clarification. Can I ask, being highly aware that this is a sensitive issue, why do some natural born women wish to create spaces where they alone are welcome? Is it because they do not accept some trans women? All trans women?
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Some women feel uncomfortable around men in circumstances where they are vulnerable, e.g. getting dressed/undressed, undergoing medical procedures etc.

Women who have been the victim of rape or sexual assault very often have a trauma response to males, which is something they cannot control - so a transwoman can trigger this. It is not a conscious reaction and they are not being transphobic, but female only spaces can be very important for their healing.
 
Geri said:
Some women feel uncomfortable around men in circumstances where they are vulnerable, e.g. getting dressed/undressed, undergoing medical procedures etc.

Women who have been the victim of rape or sexual assault very often have a trauma response to males, which is something they cannot control - so a transwoman can trigger this. It is not a conscious reaction and they are not being transphobic, but female only spaces can be very important for their healing.
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I think that's fair enough. If we do not wish any harm to anyone whilst accommodating all others, then this must be fine, mustn't it?
 
bmd said:
I appreciate the clarification. Can I ask, being highly aware that this is a sensitive issue, why do some natural born women wish to create spaces where they alone are welcome? Is it because they do not accept some trans women? All trans women?
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That question is best answered by someone who believes that. In my view, fear of the unknown and fear if the other. Same as any discrimination. But that is just my view.
 
Border Reiver said:
That question is best answered by someone who believes that. In my view, fear of the unknown and fear if the other. Same as any discrimination. But that is just my view.
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And you do not believe that fear, under any circumstances, is warranted?
 
Geri said:
Some women feel uncomfortable around men in circumstances where they are vulnerable, e.g. getting dressed/undressed, undergoing medical procedures etc.

Women who have been the victim of rape or sexual assault very often have a trauma response to males, which is something they cannot control - so a transwoman can trigger this. It is not a conscious reaction and they are not being transphobic, but female only spaces can be very important for their healing.
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The problem is that according to the current law most social spaces cannot be cis-women only spaces. In the same way that ethnic minorities may not be excluded from most social spaces or non-personal interactions, nor can trans women be do excluded.

We do not makes me exceptions for racists or other sexists.
 
Border Reiver said:
It is warranted. But like warranted fear of racists it cannot be lawfully accommodated by removing rights of other people who are not actually a threat.
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Fear, being irrational in a lot of cases, like when you have been attacked and see the likelihood of another attack in a lot of places, doesn't really take that into account.
 
bmd said:
Fear, being irrational in a lot of cases, like when you have been attacked and see the likelihood of another attack in a lot of places, doesn't really take that into account.
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The law is blind to that. In the same way that a white man who had been attacked in public by a black man could not use his fear as a reason to exclude all black men from certain spaces so that his fear was reduced.
 
Border Reiver said:
The law is blind to that. In the same way that a white man who had been attacked in public by a black man could not use his fear as a reason to exclude all black men from certain spaces so that his fear was reduced.
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Yes, I can see that. I guess this all comes back to the question of authenticity. For some. I have read a lot about the experience of trans people. How they just want to live without the constant sandpaper rub of you're not right, you. I get it. I also get what natural born women are saying and I'm not sure if this is even the ground they stick their flag on.
 
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