gavman
pj slumpy
yes he obviously needed to be taken down a peg, didn't he?
Is there a reason for the riots?
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agricola
a genuine importer of owls
As I said in the post above to butchers, without knowing more than what is on the video its difficult to establish what the legal rationale for the stop was - though one again should point out that the person filming the stop had a good view of what was going on after the Inspector walked off (for about twenty seconds), until he chose to approach the PC. Someone then shouts something about trousers, and then there is a bit of a bundle.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
This will probably be a waste of effort, but if you want to use the same logic I was using then you would have said:
was the man hanging at the beginning of the clip?
was the man hanging at the end of the clip?
why was the man hanged?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Watching it again, it seems like one of the cops decides to claim, implausibly given the circumstances, that the guy reaching into his pocket for a weapon.
This then provides them with a workable rationale for giving him some quasi-legal "attitude adjustment" for filming them/giving them lip.
Not really a surprise so many people hate the cops when this sort of stuff goes on as a matter of routine eh?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
By working. By their own initiative. By not regarding state supported indolence as a right. By not constantly whining about how the rich are rich, and they are poor, and it is soooooooo unfair. By growing a pair and taking responsibility for their own lives.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. And the reason this claim is made is because the filmer has had the temerity to walk over to the copper who had previously been deliberately obstructing him.
As butchers said, this is the assertion of low-level power. We can approach you, but if you approach us, you will be taken down.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Perhaps, though the one person we cant see in the clip is the person filming, nor do we know who he is, or what he had done prior to the footage starting. Before the inevitable outcry, that does not mean he is to blame, or that he wasnt assaulted by the police, or that the stop was a perfect example of how a police officer should behave.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Seems a bit unlikely that the officers on the scene seriously thought he was gonna whip out an Uzi and spray them with bullets while filming using the phone in his off hand though doesn't it?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
There is no doubt that the police don't like being filmed. If they were unfailingly acting within the law, there would be no reason for them to object to being filmed. One may draw a conclusion from that.
Police behaviour has deteriorated steadily over the last decade. Whether it is poor training, poor leadership, or both, is debatable. I would certainly be unhappy if they were given further powers ( baton rounds and water cannon already within their remit ), even on a temporary basis due to the current situation.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
past caring
The Cathars were right
That's what I love about you, sas - not only can you be relied on to post the same old unthinking bollocks, but you're a proper doddery old cunt and all - and you'll come on here and start replying to posts on page 1 of a 53 page thread.
What?
What was that you said?
QueenOfGoths
Fuck you Dave!
What jobs? A lot of the places where they were rioting/looting has very high youth unemployment.
And why shouldn't people moan that the rich are rich and the poor are poor. I do and it is unfair. Are you saying that having money doesn't make it easier to live. Doesn't make it easier to find and take opportunities whether it be in education, in health, in leisure. And living off the state is not indolent it can be necessary.
And people are taking initiative and they are taking responsibility. It takes an awful lot of both to survive on the minimum wage or on benefits.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Well yes, which is probably why they left him alone after a bit.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Eh? They wrestled him to the floor.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Does your video not contain the section between 1:06 and 1:22, then?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Clearly your video only contains the section between 1:06 and 1:22. You're dissembling again.
Again, this is behaviour I've seen before and lots of others will have seen before. The decision is taken to take action and a spurious reason is given for that action just before it is taken.
Again, this is behaviour I've seen before and lots of others will have seen before. The decision is taken to take action and a spurious reason is given for that action just before it is taken.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
As are you. In any case, in an attempt to prevent this bit of the thread derailing into an argument over a video that everyone can watch for themselves, please forgive me if I just refer people to the video, and to my points to butchers and bernie above. There is not a lot more else that I can say.
(edited to clear up which point I was responding to)
rekil
to menny cranks
Chilean coppers don't seem to mind being filmed searching a youngster and giving him a wee headbutt in the process.
gavman
pj slumpy
yes we should clearly ignore what we can see for ourselves in favour of an assumption of criminality not shown on the vid
gavman
pj slumpy
the dude filming that had some balls
gavman
pj slumpy
thoroughly dishonest post
''Originally Posted by harvey19
The Victorians seperated the needy into the deserving and undeserving.I think we are need to consider this concept again.
The undeserving, anti social section could be moved into workhouses where there would be a strict disciplined regime and hard work. This would be paid for by the unnecessary payment of housing and other benefits. Those who did not improve would have their lot progressively made worse.Those who proved an improvement in their behaviour and attitude would be offered education and training.'
on a local blog: he is just as dangerous as the rioters...
The Victorians seperated the needy into the deserving and undeserving.I think we are need to consider this concept again.
The undeserving, anti social section could be moved into workhouses where there would be a strict disciplined regime and hard work. This would be paid for by the unnecessary payment of housing and other benefits. Those who did not improve would have their lot progressively made worse.Those who proved an improvement in their behaviour and attitude would be offered education and training.'
on a local blog: he is just as dangerous as the rioters...
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I have to say this: if EVEN someone as r/w as Sass is saying this.....we have a full-blown policing crisis
gavman
pj slumpy
i thought that when i found myself 'liking' a post of his for the first time
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I'm sorry you're hurt. I am not, however, the one calling people "selfish arseholes", or telling anyone they can "fuck off" if they don't like it.
I'm afraid I find your posts to be so vague that I have difficulty telling what your message is, other than we're all to blame, and we all have to do something. And that you were down on me blaming neoliberalism. "It's always someone else's fault", was the mantra.
Well, I'm sorry, but we're not all to blame. Not everyone supports the neoliberal project. Not everyone accepts the Thatcherite consensus. And not everyone sits back while it goes on. There is, however, a programme that is to blame: neoliberalism. It has it's champions. They are to blame. Individually, and collectively. (I can list some of the names if you like). However, I'm more interested in the programme. It needs to be hindered, sabotaged, and eventually destroyed.
I'm not sure why you bring up your first thread on Urban75. However, I agree that it's important to do what you can in your family and local community. Like what, though? Vague platitudes? Or something that has some idea of what it is that's gone wrong? Something, in other words, that isn't apolitical, ahistoric miasma. Juggling workshops aren't going to cut it.
I've told you what I think needs to be done. I thought you understood. You seemed to agree.
Well, it looks like we actually disagree. Which is fine. I certainly don't require to agree with everyone I converse with.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I bet you've peeled a lot of spuds in your time, you monumental pain in the arse!
If only you weren't so damned useful....
I'm a champion spud-basher, it's true.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nothingness is merely an alternate state of somethingness, padawan.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's a big problem though, that resides in the fact that our system of governance is over-mighty. It's built such a nice nest for itself that it is resistant to the sort of methods of protest that worked in the past. Now protest can be ignored to a far greater extent than, say, 20 years ago. That kind of wears on activists, that awful feeling that however hard you strive, however much local support you have, you're unlikely to be able to make anything but a fleeting difference. Now, that "fleeting difference" may be one that sets some lives straight, brings hope, but how often can activists find it in themselves to keep repeating the same battles time and again, especially when so many new concerns keep springing up that need addressing?
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