Is obesity a disability?

[Sasaferrato]

You need to add hormonal problems to that list...

and btw try living on 100 mg of prednisolone a day and consuming only 1000 calories...and still watch yourself putting on weight...you think it's fluid...yeah right and a diuretic will eliminate it... ha ...it's fuckin well not fluid!!

That is an extraordinarily high dose of prednisolone. However, if you are consuming 1000 calories a day, and putting on weight (other than fluid) then you are burning less than 1000 calories a day. Steroids do lead to fat retention though.

That is a colossal dosage though.

 

[brogdale]

So, where, as a society, do we go from here? Ignoring the problem, and it is a problem, won't make it go away.

As I see it, a solution is going to cost a great deal of money. (Ignoring it will also cost a great deal of money).

But, in an era of untaxed corporations, the obesity they create is not a problem for capital.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I don't think anyone here has suggested that it isn't a problem or ignoring it.

It is an extraordinarily touchy subject on here though, this isn't the first thread on the subject that descended into a slanging match. A lot of people are very defensive on the subject, and the general ethos seems to be that all obesity is beyond the control of the sufferer, which it isn't.

There seems to be little scope for meaningful discussion, as anyone who suggests that being overweight is undesirable, and often within the control of the sufferer, is abused and/or shouted down.

The majority of those who are overweight can do something about it. Those who are suffering from an underlying psychological condition are the minority, those suffering from a metabolic disorder are an even smaller percentage.

It doesn't really matter how someone got where they are, looking forward, not backwards is the right thing to do. i.e. do what needs to be done to address the needs of all people who are too heavy, irrespective of cause, whether it be medical intervention, diet and exercise, or serious investigation into the root cause of the psychological disorder, and proper treatment.

Demonising people because they are overweight adds to the problem, it does not solve it.

 

[Citizen66]

A valid point. The number of Westminster interviewees on TV that have jowls down to the collar is quite extraordinary. Then there is Pickles...

I was talking financial greed.

 

[Citizen66]

It is an extraordinarily touchy subject on here though, this isn't the first thread on the subject that descended into a slanging match. A lot of people are very defensive on the subject, and the general ethos seems to be that all obesity is beyond the control of the sufferer, which it isn't.

There seems to be little scope for meaningful discussion, as anyone who suggests that being overweight is undesirable, and often within the control of the sufferer, is abused and/or shouted down.

The majority of those who are overweight can do something about it. Those who are suffering from an underlying psychological condition are the minority, those suffering from a metabolic disorder are an even smaller percentage.

It doesn't really matter how someone got where they are, looking forward, not backwards is the right thing to do. i.e. do what needs to be done to address the needs of all people who are too heavy, irrespective of cause, whether it be medical intervention, diet and exercise, or serious investigation into the root cause of the psychological disorder, and proper treatment.

Demonising people because they are overweight adds to the problem, it does not solve it.

Being an insensitive twat isn't beyond someone's control either. Try exercising (lol) some.

 

[kittyP]

It is an extraordinarily touchy subject on here though, this isn't the first thread on the subject that descended into a slanging match. A lot of people are very defensive on the subject, and the general ethos seems to be that all obesity is beyond the control of the sufferer, which it isn't.

There seems to be little scope for meaningful discussion, as anyone who suggests that being overweight is undesirable, and often within the control of the sufferer, is abused and/or shouted down.

The majority of those who are overweight can do something about it. Those who are suffering from an underlying psychological condition are the minority, those suffering from a metabolic disorder are an even smaller percentage.

It doesn't really matter how someone got where they are, looking forward, not backwards is the right thing to do. i.e. do what needs to be done to address the needs of all people who are too heavy, irrespective of cause, whether it be medical intervention, diet and exercise, or serious investigation into the root cause of the psychological disorder, and proper treatment.

Demonising people because they are overweight adds to the problem, it does not solve it.

Of course it matters why someone got where they are.
It needs to be acknowledged so to try and stop travelling the same paths.

I actually think this thread has been quite polite over all and there has been some good discussion.
The only times people have had rude responses is when they themselves have been rude (even if only by way of lacking empathy and/or understanding).

 

[Santino]

Fuck off.

Don't you understand physics?

 

[Pickman's model]

Don't you understand physics?

ye cannae change the laws of physics

 

[Citizen66]

Hasn't Sas been both a nurse and union rep?

I cannae help ye ken it's ye awn fault Jimmy

 

[killer b]

When did this descend into a slanging match? Is sas reading a different thread to everyone else?

 

[Citizen66]

It's his fantasy. He's gone off to knock one out over the prospect.

 

[Lord Hugh]

It is an extraordinarily touchy subject on here though, this isn't the first thread on the subject that descended into a slanging match. A lot of people are very defensive on the subject, and the general ethos seems to be that all obesity is beyond the control of the sufferer, which it isn't.

There seems to be little scope for meaningful discussion, as anyone who suggests that being overweight is undesirable, and often within the control of the sufferer, is abused and/or shouted down.

Microcosm demonstration of the interrelation between weight and mental health, and it is demonstrably no use to just tell people to do something about it without acknowledging any of the psychologics.

The majority of those who are overweight can do something about it. Those who are suffering from an underlying psychological condition are the minority, those suffering from a metabolic disorder are an even smaller percentage.

The majority can do something about it. What is that thing? Why are the obesity rates rising and rising? You think these people are making that decision consciously despite the negative cultural connotations? Why are they not doing the thing?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Also, lets make this very clear, obesity as defined by being an outlier on the BMI curve is shot through with all sorts of issues, not least that BMI as used by your GPs etc is predicated on the "norms" of a WASP population.

BMI is a very blunt instrument. I'm at least a stone too heavy at the moment, yet I'm bang in the middle of the BMI sector for weight and height.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Microcosm demonstration of the interrelation between weight and mental health, and it is demonstrably no use to just tell people to do something about it without acknowledging any of the psychologics.


The majority can do something about it. What is that thing? Why are the obesity rates rising and rising? You think these people are making that decision consciously despite the negative cultural connotations? Why are they not doing the thing?

I don't know. Tell me.

Eating too much overall, eating the wrong things, eating too much sugar... there is no single cause. After Christmas, I'll cut out all the crap that I love so much, biscuits, chocolate etc, until I lose the weight I need to lose. When I do lose weight unintentionally, is when Mrs Sas is losing weight. She dictates the diet, and healthy eating is the order of the day. I know why I put weight on (there is a familial propensity to being overweight), it is eating too much of the wrong stuff. I have a very sweet tooth, sugar is my downfall.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I was talking financial greed.

Greed is greed. I see fat politicians as the epitome of greed.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Being an insensitive twat isn't beyond someone's control either. Try exercising (lol) some.

Are you overweight? You are being very defensive.

 

[Citizen66]

Greed is greed. I see fat politicians as the epitome of greed.

Perhaps so. But there's evidence that access to higher wealth leads to access to healthier food. It's a fucking disgrace that a bag of frozen chips in Tesco costs less than a bag of apples.

 

[Citizen66]

Are you overweight? You are being very defensive.

I am yeah. But still look better than you ever have so it's a non issue really.

 

[Lord Hugh]

I don't know. Tell me.

Eating too much overall, eating the wrong things, eating too much sugar... there is no single cause. After Christmas, I'll cut out all the crap that I love so much, biscuits, chocolate etc, until I lose the weight I need to lose. When I do lose weight unintentionally, is when Mrs Sas is losing weight. She dictates the diet, and healthy eating is the order of the day. I know why I put weight on (there is a familial propensity to being overweight), it is eating too much of the wrong stuff. I have a very sweet tooth, sugar is my downfall.

No, the point is not about individual cases. Why everybody?

 

[spanglechick]

My point is that, normally obesity is self inflicted, ok maybe 5% have a few mental issues but the rest simply eat way too much of the wrong foods and do not exercise at all, not even a walk in the park or from work which doesn't cost a thing......i've got no time for greedy or lazy people, and neither, does it seem, has nature.

Oh good, statistics. Care to share what research has lead you to that 5% figure?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Microcosm demonstration of the interrelation between weight and mental health, and it is demonstrably no use to just tell people to do something about it without acknowledging any of the psychologics.


The majority can do something about it. What is that thing? Why are the obesity rates rising and rising? You think these people are making that decision consciously despite the negative cultural connotations? Why are they not doing the thing?

Selective quotes are selective quotes. What you have done is distort my words by quoting selectively the parts which you perceive to be adverse, whereas the whole post makes it quite clear that I am not 'blaming' anyone for the situation they find themselves in to today. What I am suggesting is that people be helped, in whatever manner they require, be it a gastric band, the advice of a dietician, a regime of taking more exercise, or, a proper investigation into their psychological condition.

I do not lack empathy, but empathy solves nothing on its own. Practical intervention is required. When you have nursed someone who cannot reach round to wipe their own backside, you cannot be anything but empathetic. I feel desperately sorry for those who are morbidly obese, they don't want to be that way, and are usually desperately unhappy. That said, you cannot stick your head in the sand and say 'That's terrible.' then do nothing about it. I would sooner see money spent on intervention as soon as possible, that restores people to meaningful life. Dealing with the aftermath is often pointless, the damage has been done, and although you can treat the consequences, you cannot give back the years of fully functional life.

 

[Utopia]

Oh good, statistics. Care to share what research has lead you to that 5% figure?

Yes you're right.....its probably more like 2%, apologies.

 

[Citizen66]

When you have nursed someone who cannot reach round to wipe their own backside, you cannot be anything but empathetic.

You do know that empathy means you've been in that situation yourself?

 

[Citizen66]

Yes you're right.....its probably more like 2%, apologies.

Link?

 

[Pickman's model]

am i too late to put the boot into Utopia?

 

[brogdale]

Yes you're right.....its probably more like 2%, apologies.

I think that'll be 2.5%, actually...assuming your adhering to the TOANAHI statistical methodology.

 

[Citizen66]

Nope.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes you're right.....its probably more like 2%, apologies.

you're dancing round the elephant, which is that you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

 

[belboid]

There's an old joke:

A man piloting a hot air balloon discovers that he has wandered off course and is hopelessly lost. He descends to a lower altitude and locates a man on the ground. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"

The man below says, "Yes, you are in a hot air balloon, about thirty feet above this field."

"You must be an accountant," says the balloonist.

"Yes I am" replies the man. "And how did you know that"

"Well" says the balloonist, "what you tell me is technically correct, but of no use to anyone."


Sasafuckwittio's posts here are pretty much the same. Even when they are actually factually correct, they are of absolutely no use or value to anyone.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Oh good, statistics. Care to share what research has lead you to that 5% figure?

There isn't, as far as I'm aware.

I'm just back from walking the neighbour's dog. Whilst I was wandering round I was thinking of this thread. When I was a schoolboy in the late 50s/early 60s, there was one overweight child in the school, and by today's standards, he would be described as plump. The rest of us were lean.

What differs between then and now? Less money, so less in the way of sweets. Very few highly processed foods. Virtually all mothers were at home, because a single wage ran a household, so home cooked meals from fresh ingredients.

Now, we have a plethora of highly sweetened drinks, sweets, processed foods and both parents working, because it takes two wages to run a household.

I don't think that there is a single cause of obesity, I think there are a number of cumulative factors.

When I said that how people got to where they are now, I didn't mean ignore the cause; that must be addressed; I meant that the emphasis should be on weight loss, and more importantly keeping it off.