Is obesity a disability?

[kittyP]

There isn't, as far as I'm aware.

I'm just back from walking the neighbour's dog. Whilst I was wandering round I was thinking of this thread. When I was a schoolboy in the late 50s/early 60s, there was one overweight child in the school, and by today's standards, he would be described as plump. The rest of us were lean.

What differs between then and now? Less money, so less in the way of sweets. Very few highly processed foods. Virtually all mothers were at home, because a single wage ran a household, so home cooked meals from fresh ingredients.

Now, we have a plethora of highly sweetened drinks, sweets, processed foods and both parents working, because it takes two wages to run a household.

I don't think that there is a single cause of obesity, I think there are a number of cumulative factors.

When I said that how people got to where they are now, I didn't mean ignore the cause; that must be addressed; I meant that the emphasis should be on weight loss, and more importantly keeping it off.

I think for a lot of people, tackling issues around self image/worth rather than going in totally focused on "weight loss" would be far more beneficial to overall health, mental and physical.

 

[Citizen66]

Capitalism, Sas.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You do know that empathy means you've been in that situation yourself?

Absolutely. I lost five stone. It was hard, it was long and I have never been back there. I had a back injury closely followed by a knee injury. I was quite immobile for months, and eating relieved the boredom. My recovery was hampered by being overweight, and, being in the army at the time, I was given two choices, lose the weight and pass your basic fitness test, or you are out. I lost the weight. Hard bloody going. As soon as my knee settled I was out at 6am every morning with the unit PTI, and it wasn't optional. By the end, I was running five miles every morning, hardly even out of breath. Once the fitness regime stopped, I moved back to my generally 'medium' level of fitness, but kept the weight off. I'm heavier at the moment than I've been for a while (about 20lbs too heavy), I'll see to that in the New Year.

Yes, empathy. I do know how frighteningly fast your weight can accelerate. (On reflection, drinking a lot of beer didn't help either.)

 

[Citizen66]

That post also reeks of "If I can do it, so can everyone else" Tory speak.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I think for a lot of people, tackling issues around self image/worth rather than going in totally focused on "weight loss" would be far more beneficial to overall health, mental and physical.

It is all part of the support package though, surely? There are psychological issues in every case of obesity.

What got me down most was the length of time it took. It took about three months to put the weight on, I started from a stone too heavy and added to that. There is also the disillusionment generated by the fairly quick weight loss to begin with, then it plateaus, and you go a while without much coming off. Then you are told that eating nothing is wrong, your body goes into 'famine mode' and weight loss stalls and you feel dreadful, you are burning muscle not fat etc. Losing weight isn't just a matter of eating less on its own, you need to change pretty much everything. I had intensive support, and a bloody good reason for doing it. Had I been in civvy street, I doubt if I would have the same motivation, I may have lost the weight, then again, I may not.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That post also reeks of "If I can do it, so can everyone else" Tory speak.

Are you for real?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Capitalism, Sas.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with you on that. Those in power have no real interest in the well-being of the ordinary person, and that goes for both major parties. Provided the populace can keep doing the required work, early death is a benefit.

 

[Sasaferrato]

There's an old joke:

A man piloting a hot air balloon discovers that he has wandered off course and is hopelessly lost. He descends to a lower altitude and locates a man on the ground. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"

The man below says, "Yes, you are in a hot air balloon, about thirty feet above this field."

"You must be an accountant," says the balloonist.

"Yes I am" replies the man. "And how did you know that"

"Well" says the balloonist, "what you tell me is technically correct, but of no use to anyone."


Sasafuckwittio's posts here are pretty much the same. Even when they are actually factually correct, they are of absolutely no use or value to anyone.

Fuck off bellend.

 

[Citizen66]

Are you for real?

No, a figment of your imagination.

I lost quite a bit of weight earlier this year with a mix of eating uber healthily and exercising daily. But, as always, the wheels fell off. I started getting disgusting spots on my stomach that I could only put down to the amount of sweat I was covering myself with during the warm weather and exercising in that heat made it more difficult to continue anyway. So I decided to stop until the insane heat passed. Problem being if I ever decide to stop exercising, It generally doesn't start up again.

 

[kittyP]

Are you for real?

It kinda read like that to me too. Sorry

 

[weltweit]

You do know that empathy means you've been in that situation yourself?

Actually it doesn't mean that.

Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

 

[toggle]

My point is that, normally obesity is self inflicted, ok maybe 5% have a few mental issues but the rest simply eat way too much of the wrong foods and do not exercise at all, not even a walk in the park or from work which doesn't cost a thing......i've got no time for greedy or lazy people, and neither, does it seem, has nature.

i suggest you have a look at the term lazy. you clearly have a lazy mind, an inability to consider quality input that might lead to some improvement in output. your choice to remain lazy has made you ignorant. that is something you need to fix.

 

[Citizen66]

Actually it doesn't mean that.

Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Because you've experienced it or similar yourself.

How else does it work? By having a magical brain?

 

[weltweit]

Because you've experienced it or similar yourself.

How else does it work? By having a magical brain?

You don't have to have direct experience of the issue to be able to empathise (although you can have), you just have to be able to mentally put yourself in the shoes of the person you are trying to be empathic with.

 

[Citizen66]

You don't have to have direct experience of the issue to be able to empathise (although you can have), you just have to be able to mentally put yourself in the shoes of the person you are trying to be empathic with.

No, that's sympathy.

 

[kittyP]

1. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person.Sympathy derives from Latin and Greek words meaning 'having a fellow feeling'.

 

[weltweit]

empathy:

People often confuse the words empathy and sympathy. Empathy means ‘the ability to understand and share the feelings of another’ (as in ‘both authors have the skill to make you feel empathy with their heroines’), whereas sympathy means ‘feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else’s misfortune’ (as in ‘they had great sympathy for the flood victims’).

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/empathy

 

[8ball]

Problem being if I ever decide to stop exercising, It generally doesn't start up again.

Yeah, loss of momentum is a bitch.

 

[kittyP]

I think Welty might be right.
I think you can empathise without having exact experience of someone else's situation

 

[Citizen66]

So what's the actual difference between empathy and sympathy? Those examples make them sound identical.

 

[Blagsta]

Inactivity mainly.

My sister in law had an acute psychotic episode a few years back (complex case, she also suffers from lupus. She was looking after the hiuse whilst we were on holiday, hence was admitted to our local hospital. She was in from the middle of August until the following January. We were up visiting seven days a week for that time.

The patients spent their time sitting around doing nothing. Other than board games, there were no recreational facilities.

As I said, that was a few years back, but unless things have changed in the interim, I can fully understand why people were overweight. I would be myself in that scenario.

So nothing to do with the effects of medication?

 

[kittyP]

So what's the actual difference between empathy and sympathy? Those examples make them sound identical.

I think sympathy is more feeling sorry for someone than being able to feel the same kind of emotion as them.

Like, if someone I know from works mum died, I might feel sympathy for them but were not that close so I am not actually really feeling it with them iyswim?

 

[Blagsta]

My point is that, normally obesity is self inflicted, ok maybe 5% have a few mental issues but the rest simply eat way too much of the wrong foods and do not exercise at all, not even a walk in the park or from work which doesn't cost a thing......i've got no time for greedy or lazy people, and neither, does it seem, has nature.

Where did you get that figure of 5% from?

 

[weltweit]

So what's the actual difference between empathy and sympathy? Those examples make them sound identical.

You can empathise with people for all sorts of reasons where there may be absolutely no need to be sympathetic with them. One might for example empathise with someone winning something, no need for sympathy.

Then you could sympathise with someone who just lost their dog but have no need to really empathise with them.

At least I think

 

[Citizen66]

You can empathise with people for all sorts of reasons where there may be absolutely no need to be sympathetic with them. One might for example empathise with someone winning something, no need for sympathy.

Then you could sympathise with someone who just lost their dog but have no need to really empathise with them.

At least I think

Why would you empathise with a win? You'd congratulate or seeth with jealousy, surely?

 

[Blagsta]

Yes you're right.....its probably more like 2%, apologies.

What research are you basing this on?

 

[Citizen66]

I think sympathy is more feeling sorry for someone than being able to feel the same kind of emotion as them.

Like, if someone I know from works mum died, I might feel sympathy for them but were not that close so I am not actually really feeling it with them iyswim?

No, you'd feel empathy if you also had experienced loss of a loved one. You'd feel sympathy if someone failed to fly to the moon.

 

[toggle]

Are you for real?

do you think that kind of solution works for everyone? that it's simply a matter of having sufficient motivation?

before I tried the VLC diets, I decided to take control of my weight and diet. I was staying with a freind, eating well, lots of fresh veg, no crap. less than her, and she was older, smaller and less active than me. She lost weight eating larger portions tham me.

i was in the gym 5x a week, usually 2 hours at a time. i had a program designed for me by the instructors, that I worked through, upping the resistance on the machines. I went swimming and walking loads with the kids. I lost size, I got fitter and I didn't loose a fucking oz in 6 months, with a 500 cal/day defecit before I added in exercise levels like that. No i wasn't cheating on the fucking diet. no I wasn't swanning about at the gym. i was doing everything right according to every bit of the standard advice on weight loss.

i fuckign changed everything. but still couldn't change my weight until I went onto a diet that is half a step away from abstaining from food completely. and doing that wasn't about motivation. drinking a few milkshakes and walking a bit further was nothing compared to the motivation it took to keep going with no fucking results. there really are times when the standard advice will not work, however closely it is followed and however motivated someone is.

 

[Blagsta]

You do know that empathy means you've been in that situation yourself?

No it doesn't, or at least if we're using the Rogerian concept of empathy. Empathy means attempting to understand what it is like to be the person who you are empathising with. Can only be achieved with the use of person centred communication, i.e. open questions, reflection etc. It is a two way process of understanding. That's the counselling theory anyway, it's not without its problems and critiques.

 

[Citizen66]

Sorry, you express sympathy. Maybe that's the difference?