Is obesity a disability?

[Nancy_Winks]

You have the rare ability to speak the truth about how things were and felt and you do it with courage and it shines through. It makes people care for you and only want the very best for you xx

 

[kittyP]

What about in the workplace, though? Has anyone ever argued that an employer needs to accommodate their alcoholism? I also tend to think disabled implies to many people a bit of "I can't do anything about my condition". Many would be reluctant to consider something a disability if they thought the sufferer could do something about it, I guess similar to the "Is alcoholism a disease?" debate. Just some random ideas running through my head...

I honestly don't know tbh.
Not in the current UK attitudes to employment.

I do think that the best solution for everyone (apart from the elite/rich few), not just the disabled but all "workers", those with families, those wanting to study/improve their situation, those just struggling to cope in a fast placed modern world, would be to generally relax the approach to "working hours" and "attendance".
I think if more people/it was set in employment law that people could work properly flexi, have proper agreements around other activities (like study) and people could call in and say "I'm taking a day off today coz I need it", people would generally be happier and healthier.

Sorry that's a bit of a tangent though.

 

[kittyP]

I'm just a gobshite.

You have a beautiful gob x

 

[spanglechick]

You have a beautiful gob x

Thanks all. The gobshite thing... I mean that by nature I'm very verbal: I put everything into words. Everything, all the time. Every thought and feeling is turned into words and spoken (or written). And explaining nebulous stuff clearly is my job, as a teacher... And then also I'm not shy to talk about myself (narcissistic tendencies), so basically, I've had a lot of practice at writing all this shit.

But yeah. Thanks

 

[kittyP]

Thanks all. The gobshite thing... I mean that by nature I'm very verbal: I put everything into words. Everything, all the time. Every thought and feeling is turned into words and spoken (or written). And explaining nebulous stuff clearly is my job, as a teacher... And then also I'm not shy to talk about myself (narcissistic tendencies), so basically, I've had a lot of practice at writing all this shit.

But yeah. Thanks

See I'm the same in terms of being a very verbal person.
I talk and type a lot.
But the difference is with me it's mostly stuttering nonsense

 

[ferrelhadley]

Many Olympic athletes are "obese" and I am technically "very obese". Now as some including Ms Spangles have met me I am sure neither she nor anyone else will call me disabled. But there are issues that lead people to carrying so much weight for their frames that it leads to them being physically impaired. This is an impairment that can be reduced or alleviated by weightloss. So is "obese" and "disabled" the correct terms or do we need a more nuanced language here?

Are people arguing at cross purposes because the terms are too imprecise and there is confusion between the side effects of physical\mental\biochemical problems and your body mass index?

 

[fishfinger]

See I'm the same in terms of being a very verbal person.
I talk and type a lot.
But the difference is with me it's mostly stuttering nonsense

I'm really poor at talking or writing, so my posts are mainly pictures.
All I can say is thank goodness for loquacious lovelies like you and spanglechick

 

[Citizen66]

I spent years on prednisolone...starting at 100mg /day and working my way down to 40mg...(which most gps consider high )
For the first year I stuck rigidly to 1000 cals a day. Lived on salad. No sugar. No salt. No fats as far as possible. It was pure hell. I kept a journal of intake every day. I STILL put on over a stone weight.

There's a problem with undereating too in that the body thinks it's starving so starts storing any fat it can get hold of around your body to protect your internal organs and burn off muscle instead. That's why loads of diets are complete bullshit.

 

[DotCommunist]

not happening if you have a malnourished frame an upbringing. Ma did everything she could for us but we are still bantam weight rationing victims.

I did wonder though, when you get overweight and if food isn't a comfort but a necessity, do folks think 'Shouldn't be munching this. but. chomp chomp'?

cos I dose myself with bad things all the time and get the guilts. Never with food tho. Just the friggin booze and weed.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

There's a problem with undereating too in that the body thinks it's starving so starts storing any fat it can get hold of around your body to protect your internal organs and burn off muscle instead. That's why loads of diets are complete bullshit.

It wasn't undereating that led to my weight gain. It was prednisolone.
But I do understand about the body's reaction to starvation...
I wasn't starving myself though.
I was on a diet to rebuild damaged muscle tissue.

 

[Citizen66]

It's very rarely pleasurable, tbh. Or only very fleetingly. Like one or two seconds, every once in a while.

That's the trajectory for most addictions. It long ago stopped being a pleasurable pursuit but the mind still demands levels of it regardless of enjoyment.

 

[kittyP]

I'm really poor at talking or writing, so my posts are mainly pictures.
All I can say is thank goodness for loquacious lovelies like you and spanglechick

 

[Citizen66]

It wasn't undereating that led to my weight gain. It was prednisolone.
But I do understand about the body's reaction to starvation...
I wasn't starving myself though.
I was on a diet to rebuild damaged muscle tissue.

• Sorry, yeah, that was more adding to what you were saying rather than challenging it. It's that time of night where I think out loud but sleep would be a better idea. No idea why this is a bullet point. This blue tooth keyboard does some weird shit.

 

[spanglechick]

not happening if you have a malnourished frame an upbringing. Ma did everything she could for us but we are still bantam weight rationing victims.

I did wonder though, when you get overweight and if food isn't a comfort but a necessity, do folks think 'Shouldn't be munching this. but. chomp chomp'?

cos I dose myself with bad things all the time and get the guilts. Never with food tho. Just the friggin booze and weed.

it's hard because you do HAVE to eat something, mostly at least two or three times every single day. The issue is being forced. But sometimes you feel ashamed of eating anything at all.

And a social and cultural as other indulgences can be, fucking food is the centerpiece of pretty much every life ritual. it's one way that many families show love. biochemically, eating is comforting, but it's also learned behaviour. Had a shit day? chocolate / icecream binge - as a western woman that's a prevalent message.

 

[DotCommunist]

oh yeah 'comfort eating' thats a thing isn't it? and socially encouraged

 

[Citizen66]

It's a tricky one. Steps rehabs preach abstinence. Not sure how that message carries over to food tbh.

 

[kittyP]

it's hard because you do HAVE to eat something, mostly at least two or three times every single day.

See this is one of the biggest issues with over eating imho.
I am not saying it is in any way easy but with other addictive behaviours, they tell you the one sure way is to cut it out all together, stop doing it, moderation once addicted won't work etc etc.
But with food you can't just stop ever eating again.
I find I can not eat at all quite easily but as soon as something goes in my mouth, that's it. I want/need more and more and whatever is available.

 

[equationgirl]

What about in the workplace, though? Has anyone ever argued that an employer needs to accommodate their alcoholism? I also tend to think disabled implies to many people a bit of "I can't do anything about my condition". Many would be reluctant to consider something a disability if they thought the sufferer could do something about it, I guess similar to the "Is alcoholism a disease?" debate. Just some random ideas running through my head...

Check your employer's policies and procedures. Most of them have some sort of policy outlining how they will deal with substance abuse issues in the workplace.

Some are more accommodating than others, shall we say.

 

[Dogsauce]

If obesity is classed as a disability in itself. Then it'd seem that drug and alcohol addiction would qualify too surely.

Can you imagine the amount of pissing and moaning from reactionary idiots if this translated into the right to use disabled parking spaces?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Just googled the definition. You're disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

Sounds like obesity to me.

Fair enough, but sobering then to think that over 1/3 of US citizens are disabled on this basis alone.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

Can you imagine the amount of pissing and moaning from reactionary idiots if this translated into the right to use disabled parking spaces?

 

[BigTom]

What I had to fill in my DWP form/book for claiming ESA, there was a whole section for those claiming on the grounds of alcohol and or substance addiction.
I have no idea how this actually works in real life as I don't know anyone who has attempted to claim on those grounds but it must be at least a bit considered a disability to be on the form I guess

You can't score enough points in the wca to get ESA from addiction alone, but addiction usually comes with other linked problems (either a cause of addiction or caused by addiction), so with those you can get disability benefits.

 

[Looby]

Can you imagine the amount of pissing and moaning from reactionary idiots if this translated into the right to use disabled parking spaces?

It wouldn't though. Being defined as disabled doesn't entitle someone to a blue badge or anything else. If someone has severe mobility issues they'll already be able to apply for a blue badge regardless of the cause.

 

[Greebo]

oh yeah 'comfort eating' thats a thing isn't it? and socially encouraged

More encouraged (or ignored) than 'comfort drinking' aka 'self-medicating' anyway.

 

[brogdale]

the answer is sometimes.

Apparently, this is pretty much what the actual judgement says....

 

[el-ahrairah]

Apparently, this is pretty much what the actual judgement says....

they should have saved themselves loads of time and money and just asked me in the first place.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's all true. But suppose you don't have any underlying conditions but eat too much and don't exercise and get obese as a result? I guess then it's a self-inflicted disability, and in that case should employers accomodate such people? Probably not, or at least should demand some changes to the lifestyle.

In terms of "underlying conditions", there's a vast amount of psychological literature (that usually gets ignored by those pushing a "it's all their own fault" line) showing that a significant minority of obese children are over-fed by parents whose own experiences of childhood included hunger. As you may or may not know, weight loss for children and teenagers is a very tricky and fraught business, and if parents and/or children have psychological issues around food, things get even harder. I only thank fuck that dieticians etc can no longer prescribe amphetamines for child obesity, as they eventually did for me.
As for lifestyle changes, I was an obese child. I ate exactly the same as my non-obese siblings, and probably exercised more than any of them, and yet losing weight was a very hard task for me. A year as a 13 year old on a 1000 calorie a day diet saw me losing 15lb over the course of that year, and that at a time when your body is supposedly kicking into metabolic overdrive to power puberty along!

It's rarely as simple as eating too much with too little exercise, and the solution is rarely as simple as making a few lifestyle changes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I would question whether anyone gets to a seriously obese stage without there being something else going on.

I agree. Whether that something is inherent to the obese person themselves, or to their family , is important, but not as important as the fact of serious obesity. Unfortunately too, sometimes the issues that drive/validate the behaviours causing the obesity are incredibly deep-rooted, sometimes in early childhood feeding behaviours.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Everyone's got something else going on! So what?

So often you need to solve the "something else going on" in order to address the obesity.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Forget for a minute about all the people who have a diminished physical ability to control their weight for whatever reason, and just consider the set of people who eat too much and don't exercise enough of their own volition.

What happens if you make it a formal disability?

Well for one, they get better access to services - you can go and get NHS therapy of all kinds for mental health issues, for example, but who do you go to today to tackle weight in a structured and therapeutic manner? So treating it as a proper condition rather than some of lifestyle tangent is likely to be of benefit.

On the other hand you implicitly reduce the level of self-responsibility, suggesting it's something that merely happens to you rather than something you have a degree of control over. Plus where do the resources to treat it properly as per the above come from?

It's certainly an issue where both sides of the treatment coin are apparent.
One of the things that Greebo and I noticed in Germany last time we were there, was how many parks and pieces of public land had robustly-made basic gym equipment for public use - almost like a playground for adults - and that this kit was quite widely used, because people walked past the public spaces doing their daily business, and kind of made time to spend 10-15 minutes building up a sweat without having to go to a membership gym and change into expensive clothing etc. People took responsibility for themselves because the state made it cheaper and easier for them to do so.
From what I recall, the cost-benefit analysis to the German healthcare industry meant a steady flow of sponsorship for providing these facilities.