Is obesity a disability?

[kittyP]

So why are the majority of psychiatric patients still overweight?

I was watching a documentary about broadmoor and the biggest health issue there, other that psychiatric obvs, is obesity.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

If a drug increases your appetite while also making you more sedated and less active you'll put on weight.

More in, less out. Using your 'physics' and nothing involving sugar syrup

 

[bluescreen]

Oh god, the deserving/undeserving disabled argument. As if anyone actually chooses.

 

[Santino]

The only thing that causes weight gain is a calorific intake that is in excess of calorific output.

The only thing that causes people to think that you're a bigoted misanthropic boor are the things you type onto the internet.

 

[killer b]

The only thing that causes people to think that you're a bigoted misanthropic boor are the things you type onto the internet.

bollocks.



I bet it's the things he says in the pub and at work, too.

 

[Citizen66]

Does eating lessen the emotion (in the same way say fags or gear does)?

In days of yore when food was scarce or harder to come by, fatty food was good for your reserves and sugary food was good for instant energy. So through evolution or whatever our brains were progrmmed to tell us 'what you're eating now will serve you well, have more of this' and it would communicate that message through your pleasure receptors (sorry, someone smarter than me will know the scientific term!)

Fast forward to the modern day and those messages still exist. Eat some chocolate and the brain releases dopamine, rewarding you for eating food that will serve you well ready for times of scarcity. Problem being that we don't live in times of scarcity. And if you have problems with your feelings repeatedly hitting that receptor with kebabs or chocolate is not too dissimilar to hitting those receptors with smack or booze.

 

[kittyP]

It's similar to the fact that generally people feel better and are less depressed if they get out of bed, get washed and dressed and go out and see and talk to people.
But telling a depressed person that the only thing standing between them and well mind is the fact that they won't get up and go out is a hugely unhelpful and counterproductive thing to do.

It's the same thing (in my mind) as telling overweight people that "all they need to do" is eat less and move more.

While it may be "technically correct" it's really unhelpful and counterproductive.

 

[equationgirl]

The only thing that causes weight gain is a calorific intake that is in excess of calorific output.

Some medications, by interference with metabolism, can create a propensity to gain weight, but do not in themselves increase weight by more than their own weight.

Edited to add:

Some drugs can increase weight by engendering fluid retention, but that is not true weight gain, and can be controlled by diuretics.

Do you realise how offensive you are being when you post things like this?

My painkillers are known to increase the likelihood of weight gain, regardless of calorific intake. Another drug I'm on has weight gain listed as a known common side effect. And that's just three of them. I'm also limited in the amount and type of exercise I can do due to my back problems and kidney problems (and no, I can't go swimming because of where my back injury is. Swimming makes it worse).

I also battle weight gain through diuretics - even my consultant acknowledges I am carrying extra fluid at the moment but won't increase my diuretics because it will lower my blood pressure too much which brings other problems with it.

So no, you don't know everything and yes, I find your post thoughtless if not downright rude.

 

[harpo]

I was watching a documentary about broadmoor and the biggest health issue there, other that psychiatric obvs, is obesity.

Clozapine, for example, causes sluggishness and obesity, as well as buggering about with white blood cells, but it can be the only thing that controls schizophrenia.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

The only thing that causes weight gain is a calorific intake that is in excess of calorific output.

Some medications, by interference with metabolism, can create a propensity to gain weight, but do not in themselves increase weight by more than their own weight.

Edited to add:

Some drugs can increase weight by engendering fluid retention, but that is not true weight gain, and can be controlled by diuretics.

You need to add hormonal problems to that list...

and btw try living on 100 mg of prednisolone a day and consuming only 1000 calories...and still watch yourself putting on weight...you think it's fluid...yeah right and a diuretic will eliminate it... ha ...it's fuckin well not fluid!!

 

[kittyP]

You need to add hormonal problems to that list...

and btw try living on 100 mg of prednisolone a day and consuming only 1000 calories...and still watch yourself putting on weight...you think it's fluid...yeah right and a diuretic will eliminate it... ha ...it's fuckin well not fluid!!

I have tried the 5:2 diet a few times while on these meds and given up because I either lose nothing or actually put on.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

I have tried the 5:2 diet a few times while on these meds and given up because I either lose nothing or actually put on.

I spent years on prednisolone...starting at 100mg /day and working my way down to 40mg...(which most gps consider high )
For the first year I stuck rigidly to 1000 cals a day. Lived on salad. No sugar. No salt. No fats as far as possible. It was pure hell. I kept a journal of intake every day. I STILL put on over a stone weight. At some stage during the second year I had a long chat with my doc and a dietician. Both said that the prednisolone altered the way the body manages sugars and fats..of all types.
And that I'd put on weight regardless.
I stayed on maintenance steroids for another four years. ..made shite of my bones. ..and was three stone heavier and three sizes bigger.
This was following a really strict diet.
I came off the steroids eventually and returned to close to my old weight within 6 months...with no effort.

Then i met my other half and he cooks the most amazing dinners. ..and then I had my gall bladder removed...and feck it life's too short to count calories now...

 

[Nancy_Winks]

You enjoy every moment bubblesmcgrath sounds like you've earnt it!

 

[BandWagon]

I spent years on prednisolone...starting at 100mg /day and working my way down to 40mg...(which most gps consider high )
For the first year I stuck rigidly to 1000 cals a day. Lived on salad. No sugar. No salt. No fats as far as possible. It was pure hell. I kept a journal of intake every day. I STILL put on over a stone weight. At some stage during the second year I had a long chat with my doc and a dietician. Both said that the prednisolone altered the way the body manages sugars and fats..of all types.
And that I'd put on weight regardless.
I stayed on maintenance steroids for another four years. ..made shite of my bones. ..and was three stone heavier and three sizes bigger.
This was following a really strict diet.
I came off the steroids eventually and returned to close to my old weight within 6 months...with no effort.

Then i met my other half and he cooks the most amazing dinners. ..and then I had my gall bladder removed...and feck it life's too short to count calories now...

Wow, that's tough. Glad you get amazing dinners.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Surely anything that can get in the way of a 'normal' life could be considered a disability in theory? So alcoholism could be considered a disability? Yes? No?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Surely anything that can get in the way of a 'normal' life could be considered a disability in theory? So alcoholism could be considered a disability? Yes? No?

If you look at the Equality Act, that clearly defines what's within the definition. Granted, the terminology used is open to interpretation, as it should be as it can't be precise.

 

[kittyP]

I spent years on prednisolone...starting at 100mg /day and working my way down to 40mg...(which most gps consider high )
For the first year I stuck rigidly to 1000 cals a day. Lived on salad. No sugar. No salt. No fats as far as possible. It was pure hell. I kept a journal of intake every day. I STILL put on over a stone weight. At some stage during the second year I had a long chat with my doc and a dietician. Both said that the prednisolone altered the way the body manages sugars and fats..of all types.
And that I'd put on weight regardless.
I stayed on maintenance steroids for another four years. ..made shite of my bones. ..and was three stone heavier and three sizes bigger.
This was following a really strict diet.
I came off the steroids eventually and returned to close to my old weight within 6 months...with no effort.

Then i met my other half and he cooks the most amazing dinners. ..and then I had my gall bladder removed...and feck it life's too short to count calories now...

Glad things sound generally a lot better now

 

[Johnny Vodka]

If you look at the Equality Act, that clearly defines what's within the definition. Granted, the terminology used is open to interpretation, as it should be as it can't be precise.

There's the legal definition and a dictionary definition. Stuff gets moved into the legal definition as suits society or sections of it. What is more interesting is to ask why is x considered a disability legally but not y? If obesity can be considered a disability, I'm not sure why drug addiction and alcoholism can't be. Many cases will be self-inflicted, but some will be down to MH problems, etc. It hinges on the same arguments IMO.

 

[spanglechick]

Thanks for the reply, it's an interesting topic that I'd like to understand more.

The angle I'm coming from, but I'd like to point out that I was just on the periphery of this so have no solid grasp of it, is that some of the people in rehab started off as over-eaters / food addiction to deal with their feelings. This then led to self-esteem and self-image problems so they started to control food obsessively and became anorexic. Or on that spectrum. But they now had no way of controlling the feelings that over eating used to deal with. So they became heroin addicts. Heroin would both deal with their self-medication issues AND reduce their desire for food. So a win win. Well, win apart from the smack problem. Booze would never be an option as that has calories in it.

When I was in residential rehab they recognised eating disorders whether eating too much or too little as completely connected to drug addiction and had measures in place for as soon as the smack/coke whatever is taken away the food issue comes back to the fore again.

Right. Gotcha.


Self-medication, yes. Well-know as a way of addressing depression/anxiety etc. Food, booze, casual sex, overspending, drugs. I believe Elton John once said how he'd problematic ally binged on all five.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

Glad things sound generally a lot better now

Thanks ..
I'm ok.. they replaced the steroids with immunosuppressants (azathioprine)... and thankfully all is well

 

[kittyP]

There's the legal definition and a dictionary definition. Stuff gets moved into the legal definition as suits society or sections of it. What is more interesting is to ask why is x considered a disability legally but not y? If obesity can be considered a disability, I'm not sure why drug addiction and alcoholism can't be. Many cases will be self-inflicted, but some will be down to MH problems, etc. It hinges on the same arguments IMO.

What I had to fill in my DWP form/book for claiming ESA, there was a whole section for those claiming on the grounds of alcohol and or substance addiction.
I have no idea how this actually works in real life as I don't know anyone who has attempted to claim on those grounds but it must be at least a bit considered a disability to be on the form I guess

 

[spanglechick]

Can I ask some questions about binge eating (to anyone who wants to answer?). If they're too intrusive don't answer I don't want to be rude.

Is eating triggered by negative emotions (like anger, fear, loneliness, self hatred)?
How does eating make you feel?
Does eating lessen the emotion (in the same way say fags or gear does)?
Do you feel full but eat more even if it hurts or you feel sick (like self punishment?)

I'm just being really fucking nosey. And I know that every person will have a different answer to those questions. Just... curious.

Sometimes. Sometimes it's how you deal with pleasure. Or boredom. Or just a hard- wired association with being in a certain location. My eating disorder is incredibly ritualised.

The binge turns the volume right down on precarious feelings. Or it resets you. It feels like you've been waiting for the other shoe to drop since the last binge, which becomes increasingly panicky. That all sounds quite positive, like it's a good feeling... But it's horrible. It's terrifying and you feel helpless to stop, which makes you scared of how mad you are. And it's DISGUSTING. And you're DISGUSTING. And when will it ever stop? And it's such a burning, shameful secret...

I've been binging since childhood, but it all blew up in a very extreme way about ten years ago, and then I was eating dry pasta and food out of the bin. I used to spend £40 or so every day (while unemployed) on food and forcing it all into me within the shortest time. At that point, when it was most extreme I was forcing the food in until it hurt so much that I'd be crying. And then I'd wait maybe five minutes for the pain to subside to the point that I could continue. And so on.

Now, it's not that bad. I usually limit the binge by virtue if how much I've bought. Apart from takeaway food binges (pretending to the delivery driver that there was a houseful of people...) I can't remember the last time I spent more than £10-15 on a binge.

Well I really strugle with food. Sometimes I can go three days and wake up weak as a kitten and have to choke down two weetabix. Also I like drink more than my body does

So I can totally see how compulsive eating leading to obesity is a thing. Full belly makes you feel happy right? you lean back, issue a fart and sigh before dozing off.

Once the compulsion to eat for comfort enfattens you so much you can hardly walk and have to sidle sideways through doorways, well thats the effect of an addiction. To food. Heroin will kill you quicker. Not like its a competition, but it will. The lifestyle ennit. Nobody has to deal with proper scum to get a burger do they.

It's very rarely pleasurable, tbh. Or only very fleetingly. Like one or two seconds, every once in a while.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

What I had to fill in my DWP form/book for claiming ESA, there was a whole section for those claiming on the grounds of alcohol and or substance addiction.
I have no idea how this actually works in real life as I don't know anyone who has attempted to claim on those grounds but it must be at least a bit considered a disability to be on the form I guess

What about in the workplace, though? Has anyone ever argued that an employer needs to accommodate their alcoholism? I also tend to think disabled implies to many people a bit of "I can't do anything about my condition". Many would be reluctant to consider something a disability if they thought the sufferer could do something about it, I guess similar to the "Is alcoholism a disease?" debate. Just some random ideas running through my head...

 

[kittyP]

It felt wrong to like your post spanglechick but I want to acknowledge/understand it and recognise (albeit a very small part) of that for myself.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

((spanglechick )) sounds so miserable, you poor love

Brave post lady. Keep on keeping on xx

 

[spanglechick]

It felt wrong to like your post spanglechick but I want to acknowledge/understand it and recognise (albeit a very small part) of that for myself.

Thanks. And I shouldn't want to give the impression that BED is by definition that kind of extreme. The stuff I'm talking about there, I was on the edge of losing my grip in a very big way.

 

[fishfinger]

Thanks. And I shouldn't want to give the impression that BED is by definition that kind of extreme. The stuff I'm talking about there, I was on the edge of losing my grip in a very big way.

Thanks for your post above. You are so much better at expressing this than I am.

 

[spanglechick]

Thanks for your post above. You are so much better at expressing this than I am.

I'm just a gobshite.

 

[fishfinger]

I'm just a gobshite.

Not at all.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

I'm just a gobshite.

No. Your not.