Is obesity a disability?

[toggle]

There are some people who are fat because they eat a lot and they don't do any exercise and there might not be any other underlying reason. There are some people who are fat because of one or more of any number of underlying reasons, from psychological problems, to financial problems, to medications, to things we don't yet understand.

the other bit you missed off is things they won't want to talk about. JV has been told time and time again that the reason people give to him may bear little or no relation to any actual reason. and that people often will give the stereotype as an answer, or a joke as an answer, because nit stops people trying to bicker with them. Like JV does every time he gets called out on posting up simplistic shite.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

The way I see it you've got one life.
Live it.
Fuck people who criticise you for being underweight or overweight or whatever. We're all going to end up a jumble of bones in the ground.
I've known extremely fit thin "healthy" people drop dead at 42.
I've known clinically obese people who died of old age in their sleep at 84.
You're born.
You're here for a while.
You die.
Fuck the idiots who try to make you feel bad because your bmi isnt 25 or whatever.
Enjoy your life.
Being happy is far more important than being thin...

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Someone from the df preaching 'personal responsibility'. just lol.

I see the irony, believe it or not. I do have my reasons/excuses for taking drugs, but, yeah, primarily it is about personal responsibility. I've gone through times where I've got into a bit too much of a routine with drugs; I was also a chubby teenager and know, for example, how adults can shower you with food as a way of showing love and how that can take you down the road of being overweight. It was only 3 years ago I decided I was going to get myself into an exercise routine. Ultimately it's up to you (well, most of the time) to take control of the situation. It just seems the politics on here is blame it on someone else, probably a white guy - a very immature perspective on life imo and doesn't really inspire people to change.

 

[Vintage Paw]

 

[Looby]

I see the irony, believe it or not. It just seems the politics on here is blame it on someone else, probably a white guy - a very immature perspective on life imo and doesn't really inspire people to change.

This is a joke, yes?! Fucking hell.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

This is a joke, yes?! Fucking hell.

I'm not challenging anyone's personal story on here, certainly not of those who've written about their medical conditions. I just happen to think weight is within a lot of people's control. My best mate (should that be my imaginary best mate?) went from being obese and unhealthy to extremely fit in the space of a few years by changing his diet and taking up exercise. It's not easy, but this is something most people can take control of IMO. Sorry if that offends!

 

[killer b]

Ah, there's that racism again. Lovely.

 

[story]

Johnny Vodka

I've been somewhat overweight, and significantly underweight. I've struggled with substance abuse, self harm, lifestyle choices that were less than beneficial. I've been wealthy and poor. I've been at the mercy of other people, and in charge of the welfare of many people. I've been held up as an authority, and also used as an example of what to avoid.

I walked all those roads of my own volition, they were all part of my own journey. But all of them were the result of other factors in my life, things that were done to me, or around me, or where not under my control. The good stuff was a result of other factors, and so was the bad stuff.

It's not about laying blame or dodging responsibility: it's about recognising that nothing happens in a vacuum, nothing that anyone experiences is the result of a single factor, but part of a larger much more complex tapestry.

If you're talking to a heroin addict, say, it's as pointless to blame them for the problem as it is to blame the absent mother, or abusive father, or the bullying at school, or the lack of self awareness or their poor will power. It's never one thing.

Certainly a fat person may be lazy. But maybe they didn't start out as lazy, they may have lost motivation as a result of becoming fat. The skinny person down the road may be equally lazy, maybe too lazy to make themselves a proper meal. It may be that both of them is too poor to buy good quality grub, or too ill educated to be able to read a recipe and work it out, or too neglected in childhood to have learned how to take care of themselves, or....

Or they may both be physically unwell in some way, or mentally or emotionally challenged.

But it's pointless to speculate like that. Every person is the way they are because of every single thing that has ever happened to them.

How would you apply your way of thinking to, say a cancer patient? Is it something they did? There's a good deal of evidence to show that a significant amount of cancer is the result of how a person has lived. Should they simply go ahead and change everything - or the one thing - in their life that led to a cancer diagnosis? How? How can you possibly find the one thing that made it happen? And are you going to isolate those cases that were just bad luck? How? And why?

What about illiteracy? Surely that's just about learning to read, isn't it? Lazy fuckers.

 

[story]

I'm not challenging anyone's personal story on here, certainly not of those who've written about their medical conditions. I just happen to think weight is within a lot of people's control. My best mate (should that be my imaginary best mate?) went from being obese and unhealthy to extremely fit in the space of a few years by changing his diet and taking up exercise. It's not easy, but this is something most people can take control of IMO. Sorry if that offends!

I doubt very much he just woke up one day and said "I think I'll stop gaining weight and start losing it".

There was a whole complicated internal private challenging set of affairs that led to that decision. There was probably an equivalent journey towards becoming fat too. Or did he just, y'know, forget to pay attention.

And the magical ability to pick up will power when you need it. And just set it down again when you want to have a bit of a holiday.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Johnny Vodka
It's not about laying blame or dodging responsibility: it's about recognising that nothing happens in a vacuum, nothing that anyone experiences is the result of a single factor, but part of a larger much more complex tapestry.

I absolutely agree with you - I've already mentioned the way junk food is pushed, long working hours, etc as factors that might make it more difficult for people to keep a healthy weight. But that doesn't mean we can't still try and take some control, and that there isn't still some element of personal responsibility within that tapestry. To tell people it's ALL outside factors surely saps them of the power to change? It may sound pat, but of all the things that are wrong with me, I've found body shape the easiest to change (and, yes, I have experience of factors that make people eat more or put them off taking exercise). I wish everything else was as easy as that.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I doubt very much he just woke up one day and said "I think I'll stop gaining weight and start losing it".

I really don't know. He's had a tough life, but it did seem one day he just decided he must lose weight and set his mind to it. Though sometimes now I reckon he's a bit too addicted to the gym.

 

[killer b]

It's not that he doesn't understand: this is fun to him. every word typed with a smirk.

 

[kittyP]

Do I have a fuck you attitude? I don't think I've said anything in this thread that isn't common sense and I've already agreed that people are obese for various reasons. Some of my best friends are large. I do have one big friend who's happy to admit he's that size because he enjoys his food and eats too much (doesn't help that he has a sedentary job). In many cases, it is that simple - and I think it's right to ask when people make such a choice, and are so aware of that choice, how much employers and wider society should be forced to do to accommodate that choice. I probably sound like a shit politician.

I think for many people it appears that simple to those around them.
But you really know the ins and outs of his psychological state, his back ground, his experiences?

 

[kittyP]

I'm not challenging anyone's personal story on here, certainly not of those who've written about their medical conditions. I just happen to think weight is within a lot of people's control. My best mate (should that be my imaginary best mate?) went from being obese and unhealthy to extremely fit in the space of a few years by changing his diet and taking up exercise. It's not easy, but this is something most people can take control of IMO. Sorry if that offends!

You might not think you're challenging anyone's person story but you bloody well are!

 

[story]

I absolutely agree with you - I've already mentioned the way junk food is pushed, long working hours, etc as factors that might make it more difficult for people to keep a healthy weight. But that doesn't mean we can't still try and take some control, and that there isn't still some element of personal responsibility within that tapestry. To tell people it's ALL outside factors surely saps them of the power to change? It may sound pat, but of all the things that are wrong with me, I've found body shape the easiest to change (and, yes, I have experience of factors that make people eat more or put them off taking exercise). I wish everything else was as easy as that.

I agree with you that taking personal responsibility for oneself and the outcomes in one's life is both essential and empowering, and that not to do so is ultimately dysfunctional. But enabling and supporting people to do that, and understanding why we/you/they can't or won't is yet another multifactorial process.

Your posts read like a modern version of telling people to pull their socks up and pull themselves together. The only useful response is "Yes, but how is that to be done, if not by understanding the contributing factors so that they may each be addressed?"

We all know that personal responsibility is a central part of the picture. To keep reiterating it is annoying and counterproductive to any discussion.

 

[kittyP]

Johnny Vodka

I've been somewhat overweight, and significantly underweight. I've struggled with substance abuse, self harm, lifestyle choices that were less than beneficial. I've been wealthy and poor. I've been at the mercy of other people, and in charge of the welfare of many people. I've been held up as an authority, and also used as an example of what to avoid.

I walked all those roads of my own volition, they were all part of my own journey. But all of them were the result of other factors in my life, things that were done to me, or around me, or where not under my control. The good stuff was a result of other factors, and so was the bad stuff.

It's not about laying blame or dodging responsibility: it's about recognising that nothing happens in a vacuum, nothing that anyone experiences is the result of a single factor, but part of a larger much more complex tapestry.

If you're talking to a heroin addict, say, it's as pointless to blame them for the problem as it is to blame the absent mother, or abusive father, or the bullying at school, or the lack of self awareness or their poor will power. It's never one thing.

Certainly a fat person may be lazy. But maybe they didn't start out as lazy, they may have lost motivation as a result of becoming fat. The skinny person down the road may be equally lazy, maybe too lazy to make themselves a proper meal. It may be that both of them is too poor to buy good quality grub, or too ill educated to be able to read a recipe and work it out, or too neglected in childhood to have learned how to take care of themselves, or....

Or they may both be physically unwell in some way, or mentally or emotionally challenged.

But it's pointless to speculate like that. Every person is the way they are because of every single thing that has ever happened to them.

How would you apply your way of thinking to, say a cancer patient? Is it something they did? There's a good deal of evidence to show that a significant amount of cancer is the result of how a person has lived. Should they simply go ahead and change everything - or the one thing - in their life that led to a cancer diagnosis? How? How can you possibly find the one thing that made it happen? And are you going to isolate those cases that were just bad luck? How? And why?

What about illiteracy? Surely that's just about learning to read, isn't it? Lazy fuckers.

Once again Story says it all much better than my attempts

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Why don't you just cheer up?

 

[story]

It's not as bad as all that.

There's plenty worse off than you.

 

[kittyP]

I absolutely agree with you - I've already mentioned the way junk food is pushed, long working hours, etc as factors that might make it more difficult for people to keep a healthy weight. But that doesn't mean we can't still try and take some control, and that there isn't still some element of personal responsibility within that tapestry. To tell people it's ALL outside factors surely saps them of the power to change? It may sound pat, but of all the things that are wrong with me, I've found body shape the easiest to change (and, yes, I have experience of factors that make people eat more or put them off taking exercise). I wish everything else was as easy as that.

I don't know where to begin with the "no one had said" and "your missing the point" s.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Isn't it pretty well established that the main factors in the rise of obesity are the increase in availability of junk food and more sedentary jobs? AFAIK obesity is rising in places (like the far east) where it's been very low before - thanks mainly due to an increase in Maccy D's, etc where people used to eat more healthily. I 'hear' the above posts but I really do think tackling obesity is, in *most* (i.e. not all) cases, more about 'lifestyle' than it is battling psychological demons.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

"I 'hear' what you're saying but I'm just going to ignore all of it."

 

[Nancy_Winks]

When I got the train up from London the other weekend one Sunday teatime it was very crowded and a carriage short. Lots of Christmas shoppers, people at the end of a weekend in the smoke. People were stood in the isle, lots with no seat reservations including us.

Me and my son ended up standing next to four very large ladies who'd booked or at least reserved two tables between them. Very awkward. Cos the journey to Leeds is two and a half hours, my kid was knackered, I was knackered, we'd paid £150 for the journey and you expect a seat.

In the end (Stevenage) they volunteered to let us have two window seats. It was awkward, and tbf it was unfair on them as well as us. Trains should have bariatric seats. And planes. I guess you just can't fly if you're too large. No way these ladies would be able to sit within the arms of an aeroplane seat.

 

[kittyP]

Isn't it pretty well established that the main factors in the rise of obesity are the increase in availability of junk food and more sedentary jobs? AFAIK obesity is rising in places (like the far east) where it's been very low before - thanks mainly due to an increase in Maccy D's, etc where people used to eat more healthily. I 'hear' the above posts but I really do think tackling obesity is, in *most* (i.e. not all) cases, more about 'lifestyle' than it is battling psychological demons.

I think obesity in terms of just BMI definition, you're party correct.
But in terms of the OP and people who are severely overweight, it's a bit different.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

"I 'hear' what you're saying but I'm just going to ignore all of it."

Because I simply don't agree with ideas being pushed here that obesity is necessarily the result of psychological trauma or is something that can't be tackled by the individual.

This makes sense to me, for example:

Diet[edit]
Fast food has been cited as a contributing factor to obesity in the United States by various sources over the years.[51] Around one third of children aged 4 to 19 eat fast food every day in the U.S.[52]

Many popular American favorite foods, including hamburgers, french fries, bacon, and doughnuts, are high in fat and carbohydrate content. These food items are also relatively inexpensive and available at fast food chains across the country (for ex. value menu). These convenience foods are frequently fried and are high in calories. Consumption of foods exceedingly high in fat calories can lead to obesity. Many menu items at fast food establishments do not fulfill basic nutritional requirements of a healthy meal. In a 2010 report by the Rudd Center for Food Policy it was noted that less than 1% of children's meals combinations met nutrition standards recommended by experts.[53]

Fast food chains and restaurants have experienced improved sales with larger portion sizes.[54][55] Research cited by the Center for Disease Control estimates restaurant meal sizes to be four times larger than they were in the 1950s.[56][57]

Three studies published in the United States shows a correlation between sweet soda and fruit drinks to obesity.[58] The consumption of sweet soda and fruit drinks has more than doubled since the 1970s.[58] The first study showed that "drinking sugary drinks was affecting genes that regulate weight and increased the genetic predisposition of a person to gain weight."[58] The other two studies showed that "giving to children and adolescents calorie-free drinks like mineral water or soft drinks sweetened with artificial sweeteners resulted in weight loss."[58]

One of the other two studies was conducted by Boston Children's Hospital who examined two groups of adolescents.[58] The group which was encouraged to consume water or light sodas for a year gained 0.68 kilograms (1.5 lb). The other group, which consumed sugary drinks, gained 1.5 kilograms (3.3 lb).[58] The third study was conducted by Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, Netherlands.[58] They studied 641 children ages four to eleven over 18 months.[58] They were split into two groups. One group drank sweet and fruity drinks and the other group drank the same drink with sugarless sweeteners.[58] The group that drank the drink that had sugarless sweeteners gained 6.39 kilograms (14.1 lb) on average compared to 7.36 kilograms (16.2 lb) on average by the other group.[58]

blah blah blah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I suppose it's a first step if you admit that you are just ignoring what people say.

 

[Citizen66]

I'm not challenging anyone's personal story on here, certainly not of those who've written about their medical conditions. I just happen to think weight is within a lot of people's control. My best mate (should that be my imaginary best mate?) went from being obese and unhealthy to extremely fit in the space of a few years by changing his diet and taking up exercise. It's not easy, but this is something most people can take control of IMO. Sorry if that offends!

Say what you like about exercise but christ it's fucking boring.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I think obesity in terms of just BMI definition, you're party correct.
But in terms of the OP and people who are severely overweight, it's a bit different.

It is possible to get to severely overweight just via lifestyle choices, though. As I understand it, as you eat more, your body adjusts and wants more. Also, I've heard bigger people say being big becomes more of a barrier to exercising (awkwardness/embarrassment/just much more effort), so it is possible to go from slightly overweight to very overweight thanks to being trapped in a vicious circle.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Say what you like about exercise but christ it's fucking boring.

It is a sort of necessary evil, but on a decent run it's possible to hit meditative states and it can help your mental state.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Amazing that everyone who has an issue with their weight is actually a complete fucking idiot and has never thought of diet and exercise. How useful it is to have somebody suggest that. Makes all the difference.