Is India's idea of "fit for human habitation" different from everybody else's?

[GarfieldLeChat]

You said "built anything". I answered with the truth.

Bully for you and you "charity" I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourself.

nope it makes me feel much better about a country which needs ambulances.

seeing as it has the worst and highest number of road deaths in the world and also one of the largest road building programs of anywhere...

hence the need, our program teaches first aid in schools and is in effect and indian equivalent of St Johns (without the dubious xtian overtones) but if you see no benefit in having such a thing set up in a country which has pretty much no provision for this currently other than what we are providing then again you're the one with prejudices on show.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Yup 200 years of built up hate.

Deal with it Western do-gooder.

lolsome

it's an indian charity you prejudiced muppet...

still keep digging...

 

[iROBOT]

nope it makes me feel much better about a country which needs ambulances.

seeing as it has the worst and highest number or road deaths in the world and also one of the largest road building programs of anywhere...

hence the need, our program teaches first aid in schools and is in effect and indian equivalent of St Johns (without the dubious xtian overtones) but if you see no benefit in having such a thing set up in a country which has pretty much no provision for this currently other than what we are providing then again you're the one with prejudices on show.

What's the name of your charity?

 

[iROBOT]

lolsome

it's an indian charity you prejudiced muppet...

still keep digging...

I was refering to YOU not your charity...lol.

Western do-gooder.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What's the name of your charity?

None of your damn business as if I'm going to reveal that kind of information to you on a public bulletin board son...

I was refering to YOU not your charity...lol.

Western do-gooder.

lolsome.

Evil westerners bad mouthing india goes to evil westerners doing charity work for india....

need some fish for that bag of potato's on your shoulder...

you're just a nasty prejudiced piece of work aren'tcha...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

wonders if iRobot understands that working for a charity isn't the same as giving to charity...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

but assumes this will now become evil westerners coming over here taking our jobs...

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

I know this thread has kind of passed the point about shipbuilding but...

yes,, as I understand it, India, China and Japan are the daddies in that field

South Korea is the largest shipbuilding nation. I just had to say that, sorry.

 

[iROBOT]

wonders if iRobot understands that working for a charity isn't the same as giving to charity...

Somehow you seem to think that your "work" with a charity makes you an expert on Indian "culture"

I'm sure you're a local hero, no doubt about that.

 

[grit]

Quite a lot gets built and done in India. The Indian "yes" is certainly an enormous pain in the arse, but presumably Indian project managers are used to working around it.

The fucking project managers are just as bad

I own a internet cafe in Goa, and this bollocks happens in high end IT work all the way down to basic retail.

 

[grit]

I have to say - speaking as an IT recruiter - that runs very much contrary to my experience. The indian candidates on HSMP which pass my desk are streets ahead of their British counterparts - and that aplies to developers, analysts, project managers, networking people, you name it.
Also - so how come the huge growth of Wipro, cognizant, reliant infotech, HCL, Tata etc? why is there not one UK hi-tech firm to rank with these? (excepting possibly BT, I grant you)

If you want to talk about the appalling general level of British IT workers, I'd be happy to. However I shouldnt moan too much because they artificially inflate my rates

Saying some Indians are better then the average British is not saying much tbh.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Somehow you seem to think that your "work" with a charity makes you an expert on Indian "culture"

I'm sure you're a local hero, no doubt about that.

no dear it makes me an expert in getting things done within Indian culture (still talking about behaviour not ethnicity)...

and I'm well versed in local culture as well as economic culture...

very weak response given your outrageous comments...

 

[iROBOT]

no dear it makes me an expert in getting things done within Indian culture (still talking about behaviour not ethnicity)...

and I'm well versed in local culture as well as economic culture...

What charity is this?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What charity is this?

already answered thanks...

in any case you're the one making outrageous claims of peoples inherent racism why don't you back it up...

 

[grit]

already answered thanks...

in any case you're the one making outrageous claims of peoples inherent racism why don't you back it up...

Yup, it isn't anything about their race, just the work ethic!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Yup, it isn't anything about their race, just the work ethic!

it's not about work ethic either to be fair.

it's about things being done in india when they are done. however if people expect things in india to be done in a timescale or ordered fashion as they would in europe then they are in for a massive culture shock.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

particularly when it's a Govt project as the commonwealth games is. I have high hopes for the F1 circuit being an entirely different proposition as this is privately funded and bar usual building delays experinced the world over this is far more likely to be a completed better managed affair.

Irobot seems to have a bee in their bonnet and be barking up the wrong tree...

 

[grit]

it's not about work ethic either to be fair.

it's about things being done in india when they are done. however if people expect things in india to be done in a timescale or ordered fashion as they would in europe then they are in for a massive culture shock.

No matter where in the world if someone commits to a timescale and ordered fashion I expect it to be done. You dont get a pass for being from a particular country, these are universal values.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No matter where in the world if someone commits to a timescale and ordered fashion I expect it to be done. You dont get a pass for being from a particular country, these are universal values.

from experience of these things timescales always slip a bit even if only by a few hours as unforeseen circumstances always appear, however the issue seems to be in quote realistic timescales for things.

 

[grit]

from experience of these things timescales always slip a bit even if only by a few hours as unforeseen circumstances always appear, however the issue seems to be in quote realistic timescales for things.

The issue is them quoting work that they are completely incapable of carrying out regardless of the timescale.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The issue is them quoting work that they are completely incapable of carrying out regardless of the timescale.

i don't see that as being an Indian problem tbf. That's a business problem...

 

[grit]

i don't see that as being an Indian problem tbf. That's a business problem...

Its something that seems to be ingrained in Indian culture, as said before, the taboo of stating you are not capable of a certain task. Its pretty much the major problem foreigners (and some Indians tbf) have when doing business there. The example of the games is textbook evidence of it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Its something that seems to be ingrained in Indian culture, as said before, the taboo of stating you are not capable of a certain task. Its pretty much the major problem foreigners (and some Indians tbf) have when doing business there. The example of the games is textbook evidence of it.

I see it more as the games being a victim of government bureaucracy and corruption with in the system tbh. if it had beena private venture in India then there would have been less hoop jumping and more single vision.

 

[Streathamite]

If you want to talk about the appalling general level of British IT workers, I'd be happy to. However I shouldnt moan too much because they artificially inflate my rates

Saying some Indians are better then the average British is not saying much tbh.

I was actually saying that my experience - and I do nothing other than talk to s/w developers etc, and their prospective employers al day long, have done so for the past decade - is that as a body, and as a whole, the calibre of Indian IT professionals seems to be higher, quite a bit so, than their anglo brethren.
should have made that clearer - apols. don't worry, your rates-secret is safe with me
One thing that confuses me - you said earlier, if I've got you right, that UK s/w development is done much better than when outsourced to India, but now you attest to:

the appalling general level of British IT workers

Have I misunderstood you here?

 

[Streathamite]

having some personal experience of the workings of Tata I have so say chap this is a terrible example. largely because their growth is supported by diversification of product line and the massive state hand outs which it receives along with massive breaks or non-existent taxation. Also they were in real financial trouble recently (beginning/ middle of 2008-9) after purchasing Jaguar and landrover.



http://www.icmrindia.org/casestudie...trategy/Tata Motors in Trouble-Case Study.htm

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...pay_vendors_suppliers/articleshow/4078285.cms

Fair enough - quite possibly should have left New Delhi's darlings out!
tbf, Garf, a huge number of major corps posted spectacularly shit figures in 2008-2009 - as far as the global economy goes, they were simply two dreadful years. Also the Jag/LR deals were always bound to produce a major short-term headache (but yes, Tata do get amazingly jammy treatment from their govt, so maybe it wasn't fair to include them).
However, it's not just TATA: There are now a very large number of Indian IT heavyweights. Loads of them. And Bangalore, as a global IT centre is certainly up there with anything we've got

 

[grit]

I was actually saying that my experience - and I do nothing other than talk to s/w developers etc, and their prospective employers al day long, have done so for the past decade - is that as a body, and as a whole, the calibre of Indian IT professionals seems to be higher, quite a bit so, than their anglo brethren.
should have made that clearer - apols. don't worry, your rates-secret is safe with me
One thing that confuses me - you said earlier, if I've got you right, that UK s/w development is done much better than when outsourced to India, but now you attest to:

Have I misunderstood you here?

I guess the distinction is the IT industry in India, namely these cubicle farms that are outsourcing centres typically produce extremely low quality work. The overhead associated with communicating with them and essentially fixing their work makes it cheaper in the long run to just develop at home. Indians who are not in these typical outsourcing centres could very well have a high standard. I'm interested to know what criteria you are basing their performance on, as a recruiter I'd imagine that once the role has been filled your information on the performance of that employee is quite high level.

I guess the UK comment, has just been based on personal experience of trying to find good quality developers in London. Some of the interviews I did, the candidates were fucking terrible. This sentiment has been echoed by others I know in the industry. Admittedly these are not six figure jobs, however I still expected a lot better from mid level people.

In summary these are all broad sweeping comments, there will of course be exceptions to the rule. I just find the IT industry and general business ethic in India very bad, I also dont believe that there are not companies/groups in the UK doing similar if not superior work. The cambridge start up scene being one of the first that springs to mind.

tl:dr, everyone is shit at developing, the brits just seem less so.

 

[Dr Jon]

I guess the distinction is the IT industry in India, namely these cubicle farms that are outsourcing centres typically produce extremely low quality work. The overhead associated with communicating with them and essentially fixing their work makes it cheaper in the long run to just develop at home. Indians who are not in these typical outsourcing centres could very well have a high standard. I'm interested to know what criteria you are basing their performance on, as a recruiter I'd imagine that once the role has been filled your information on the performance of that employee is quite high level.

I guess the UK comment, has just been based on personal experience of trying to find good quality developers in London. Some of the interviews I did, the candidates were fucking terrible. This sentiment has been echoed by others I know in the industry. Admittedly these are not six figure jobs, however I still expected a lot better from mid level people.

In summary these are all broad sweeping comments, there will of course be exceptions to the rule. I just find the IT industry and general business ethic in India very bad, I also dont believe that there are not companies/groups in the UK doing similar if not superior work. The cambridge start up scene being one of the first that springs to mind.

tl:dr, everyone is shit at developing, the brits just seem less so.

I think you've just highlighted the problem. Who the fuck wants to work in London, when there are opportunities in less crowded, less expensive, green 'n' pleasant locations?

 

[grit]

I think you've just highlighted the problem. Who the fuck wants to work in London, when there are opportunities in less crowded, less expensive, green 'n' pleasant locations?

Plenty of people want to live and work in London, rent and property prices reflect this. Its usually the case that the best and brightest are attracted to commerce and social hubs such as capital cities as there are better opportunities.

 

[8ball]

Plenty of people want to live and work in London, rent and property prices reflect this. Its usually the case that the best and brightest are attracted to commerce and social hubs such as capital cities as there are better opportunities.

Science has yet to explain why the place is so full of cunts...

 

[8ball]

There are nice people too though.

I think they must be lost.