Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You don't enter a negotiation presenting your final position, like you don't start haggling near the amount you aim to pay.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
grit
an ugly force for good
Great
now as to those specifics, please elaborate.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Well I've not seen the question posed often, and haven't really seen an answer so what is "everything else"?
grit
an ugly force for good
Many people can claim to be far removed from the (negative) consequences of brexit. It’s been a positive for me. I even have bets in the bookies on particular outcomes at this stage.
mauvais
on reddit or something
This stuff about empire or hostages or being offered good deals - what is it?
I assume that for example, under normal circumstances, you wouldn't put your money in a vending machine and then talk about what a good or bad deal it'd given you.
So there must be something you feel is different about EU negotiation, some latitude in there, something deliberate or wilful about this process that wasn't just inevitable. What is it?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
What are the (negative) consequences of Brexit from which many can claim to be immune?
grit
an ugly force for good
Loss or reduction of income for a start. The price for my services increases the closer we get to March. Many people In Irish service industries claim if brexit happens or not is immaterial as the business has already left the uk
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So...you're speculating that Brexit will result in lower incomes...and that many people will be unaffected by this consequence? Bit difficult to get your drift tbh
grit
an ugly force for good
Yes, I wouldn’t want to be an Irish farmer right now but as a service provider the value of what I provide has increased.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
Value is a pretty slippery concept in a capitalist system. Some people would argue that food is more valuable than most, if not all services.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So you're suggesting that Brexit will cause the income of most service providers to fall, but you happen to be in the fortunate minority for whom the process will see income rise?
grit
an ugly force for good
Fair comment, I’ll be more explicit, I’m able to make more money as a direct consequence of brexit.
grit
an ugly force for good
The producers of Agriculture commodities will experience a reduction of income (obviously other sectors will also). Many service providers, of which a large amount of the Irish economy is built on (for better or worse) will find the value/price of their output increase And thus will profit.
For the Reddit generation , tldr we are profiting from brexit by taking the business from the uk.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That's not really the case, is it
grit
an ugly force for good
May doesn’t think it’s the case despite the numerous assurances it is. Time will tell.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I see. Why then, would you be describing the concerns of a UK citizen using a disparaging expression like 'shouting from the cheap seats'?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
depends what you mean by all the rest.
grit
an ugly force for good
This particular uk citizen claimed a different pm and negotiation team could have gotten a different outcome and then failed to provide specifics when prompted. So why the fuck would I care about their concerns?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It's pretty self-evident that a different PM unencumbered by May's 'red-lines' could have effected a different Withdrawal agreement. For instance, starting with an aspiration to remain within the/a customs union would have rendered notions of any 'backstop' redundant.
Shame that you seem unconcerned about the concerns of a fellow EU citizen.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The effects of Brexit on me so far have been only negative, if I discount the entertainment and education I have received from this thread, basically having a contract I was offered withdrawn because the company it was for has decided to move the relevant dept to the EU. That was a pain for me of course since it meant a couple of months where I was not earning whilst I found another, bit more of a pain for the 77 permanent staff who got made redundant.
grit
an ugly force for good
How is this self evident?
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
(i.e. a different PM unencumbered by May's 'red-lines' could have effected a different Withdrawal agreement)
No, this relates back to my question on customs union to which you replied:
Again: what is "everything else"?
grit
an ugly force for good
The requirements of being a EU member state.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Because UK membership of the/a customs union would not have necessitated a 'backstop' arrangement. Equally, an alternative PM willing to undermine the GFA could have effected a very different outcome.
Not sure why you might find this so difficult to imagine.
grit
an ugly force for good
I have no problem imagining the uk being prepared to undermine the GFA, it’s one of the things that upsets me. I don’t think it would have caused a different outcome to the one currently presented.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
But why do we need all the requirements of being a EU member state for just a customs union?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Norway doesn't have all these requirements
grit
an ugly force for good
Because those are the rules of the customs union. Fuck sake.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Nor does Switzerland
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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