Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[littlebabyjesus]

You know you can only go to the ECJ after you've been through the domestic court system right? Unless you're taking an EU institution to court?

yes, your point?

 

[Fez909]

Can she win a VONC?

 

[SpackleFrog]

yes, your point?

Just that it's only really companies and nation states by and large that can actually afford to go through all those judicial processes, or *maybe* a well resourced union. It's a fairly abstract right for the vast majority of people.

I don't want to dismiss the struggle for LGBT rights for example, at a time when we're seeing LGBT rights under attack and homophobic violence increasing in many countries around the world. But I would like to know what the ECJ is doing for LBGT people in Poland and Hungary at the moment.

 

[Wookey]

'Each new generation must win its rights anew'

To misquote Arthur Miller (or was it Ronald Reagan?)

It is easy to forget that and to take stuff for granted, but the likes of Trump and now Bolsonaro are a reminder of what can happen. I'm amazed, tbh, by how many people seem positively enthusiastic about the UK leaving the ECJ. Strikes me as supreme arrogance or foolishness or probably both to think that we will be better protected by a smaller jurisdiction. Many matters need to be devolved down as far as possible, but things like fundamental human rights need to be devolved as high as possible. And that should be celebrated when it happens - the whole of the EU, 27 countries, has adopted these legal rights. That's an achievement not to be carelessly tossed away.

I totally agree with you, Europe protected me when Westminster failed. Kinda stays in your memory does that. It's a powerful civilising influence - and we went from gay people being ejected from their military posts, to the Armed Forces joining in our Pride parades within a decade, which is extraordinary healing.

 

[Combustible]

and we went from gay people being ejected from their military posts, to the Armed Forces joining in our Pride parades within a decade, which is extraordinary healing.

Thanks to the European Court of Human Rights rather than the EU

 

[Wookey]

You know you can only go to the ECJ after you've been through the domestic court system right?

Yep, it was Stonewall who supported Lustig-Preen et al in the gay military ban case, after their case was dismissed by the High Court and Court of Appeal, who openly disagreed with the ban but were powerless to stop it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Yep, it was Stonewall who supported Lustig-Preen et al in the gay military ban case, after their case was dismissed by the High Court and Court of Appeal, who openly disagreed with the ban but were powerless to stop it.

ECHR.

 

[Wookey]

Thanks to the European Court of Human Rights rather than the EU

Teresa May tried to ditch the ECHR in the UK, to make it easier for her to deport people. She was stopped last year I think, after Barnier said leaving the ECHR would jeopardise Europe-wide security operations...

 

[Supine]

Just that it's only really companies and nation states by and large that can actually afford to go through all those judicial processes, or *maybe* a well resourced union. It's a fairly abstract right for the vast majority of people.

It's designed to address issues of european importance, not for people contesting parking tickets in Hammersmith or Chelsea.

 

[Kaka Tim]

just caught a thing on the bbc where a women from demos and tim montgomerie (leading tory commentator - but actually quite astute) both agreed that a tory leadership contest would likely mean that the new leader would revoke a50 - and THEN RESTART THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN!!! Suffering fuck - another 2 years of this shit?

 

[pocketscience]

just caught a thing on the bbc where a women from demos and tim montgomerie (leading tory commentator - but actually quite astute) both agreed that a tory leadership contest would likely mean that the new leader would revoke a50 - and THEN RESTART THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN!!! Suffering fuck - another 2 years of this shit?

 

[pocketscience]

is there an article (A51?) allowing a 27 member majority the option to throw any single member out?

 

[ska invita]

just caught a thing on the bbc where a women from demos and tim montgomerie (leading tory commentator - but actually quite astute) both agreed that a tory leadership contest would likely mean that the new leader would revoke a50 - and THEN RESTART THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN!!! Suffering fuck - another 2 years of this shit?

I think that would mean one of the first acts of the new tory leader would be paying loadsamoney in to the EU pot and arranging candidates for European Parliament elections in May

 

[moochedit]

is there an article (A51?) allowing a 27 member majority the option to throw any single member out?

I vaguely remember there is something like that but it only applies in certain circumstances.

Edit - article 7 allows a country to be suspended but not expelled...

Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union - Wikipedia

 

[moochedit]

So in theory could they cancel a50 then immediatly invoke a50 again, thus restarting the 2 year clock?

just caught a thing on the bbc where a women from demos and tim montgomerie (leading tory commentator - but actually quite astute) both agreed that a tory leadership contest would likely mean that the new leader would revoke a50 - and THEN RESTART THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN!!! Suffering fuck - another 2 years of this shit?

Have they been reading this thread?

 

[pocketscience]

I vaguely remember there is something like that but it only applies in certain circumstances.

Edit - article 7 allows a country to be suspended but not expelled...

Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union - Wikipedia

no expulsion. ouch, they must be regretting lack of foresight

 

[moochedit]

I think that would mean one of the first acts of the new tory leader would be paying loadsamoney in to the EU pot and arranging candidates for European Parliament elections in May

Which would effectively be another referendum on the eu. If that happens i bet Farage wishes he hadn't quit ukip. couple more years he could cash in on the gravy train.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Great post.

Remember too that for almost 50% of the referendum voters, this was never our issue either. The country has been hijacked.

My priorities three years ago would have been social care, homelessness and social housing, NHS protection, fracking, and that little issue about the end of civilisation as we know it within our lifetimes due to global climate change.

The number of bills, papers and reports that have been piling up since the start of this hijacking has slowed our progress by many years. The UK government is now a contradiction in terms and probably against the trade descriptions act... They are not governing, and we did not ask for any of this. Not our idea, not our beef, not our priority.

Why have your priorities changed? does your sorry old backside have a comfy seat in the civil service, or god forbid, Sky News? this has been my point all along but anyone who didn't fall for this ideological smokescreen of a referendum got labeled a dogmatist at best and apolitical at worst. like yeah i agree with you and some of the remoaners that it is the reactionary voices that are *dominating* public discussion.

But...

for god's sake, have some humility before jennuflecting at the shrine of the democratic adhesive filth!

This whole ref was a project of the remainers and they are winning.

Either you advocate revolutionary terror or you advocate concilliationist bourgeois terror. time to pick sides Wookey, time to pick sides. the country has never existed, it will never exist, it is never going to exist. Death to the people!

If you believe remainers are less homophobic than leavers then i'd like to see you try and navigate the coloured queer experience. Just cos remainers can dress their racism up in anti-racist language or their homophobia in anti-homophobic language doesn't negate this fact. uh, um, there's a word i'm looking for it's perhaps 'intersectionality' but i think you'll agree with that. no, can't be that. better be 'class' then, here comes that putrified stench again...

Most of my remainer (ex)mates have become cutthroat british nationalists just like the 'lexiters' they were castigating in 2015-16. fucking joke the whole thing. and you know what's even funnier? remainer people who were guilt tripping me for abstaining are now vociferously pro-leave, not because they always held that position on principle like ppl like redsquirrel or dotty have (which i have absolutely no issue with) but because they've dishonourably renounced class politics and liquidated themselves in the labour party. Anything to uphold the cohesion of the nation amirite?

 

[ManchesterBeth]

So basically, you're saying that Brexit has tied this Tory government up so much that it hasn't had the time to fuck things up elsewhere? Sounds good to me.

Don't be a fucking eejit (even if this post was intended as a mocking of that position.) they are still fucking shit up. every day. just cos there is a separation between political society and civil society doesn't mean a delegitimation of government equates to a crisis of capital ... yet.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Any day now, that there EU is gon' save our souls, mister!

How is building the mass political party going then? like come off it ur not that different to wookey are you.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It means you're literally lost up your own arse. Get a grip. Focus. Stay with us.

Christ you're tedious. Self awareness clearly not your strong point either. You're actually making me want to agree with Liberal remainers. Fucking stop it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You've done lots of tough negotiations then?

Secured an extra £1.50 pocket money off his mum and he did it by dangling the dog over the edge of a cliff until she gave in. That is just the latest one, he does the biggest and best deals there are, like a Donald trump only with bitcoin and beano comics instead of Mexico and walls. Or something.

 

[killer b]

Tim Montgomerie isn't 'astute', he's a raging bellend. A complete clown-shoed ignoramus

 

[The Fornicator]

Today might need a drinking game: how about starting with a shot every time someone on the news ironically says 'strong and stable'.

 

[The Fornicator]

Christ you're tedious. Self awareness clearly not your strong point either. You're actually making me want to agree with Liberal remainers. Fucking stop it.

Yesterday he solved the back stop. Can't I at least hope for climate change today.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

Conspiracy theorist security liberals now going full on putschist on the basis that everything is a Putinist plot to “destroy Britain”. (I am not saying that various agents of influence and strategies are not in play, but the security liberals’ response reveals their attachment to the establishment and lack of imagination or alternatives) This one is an ex cop with a large following of the more extreme #FBPEers:

 

[teuchter]

This thread is strangely quiet this morning

 

[Pickman's model]

This thread is strangely quiet this morning

yes, we have reached consensus that there will be no brexit. the thread is therefore redundant.

 

[danny la rouge]

This thread is strangely quiet this morning

The current fun is elsewhere. Related, but elsewhere.

 

[SpackleFrog]

How is building the mass political party going then? like come off it ur not that different to wookey are you.

Where did that come from? Did you just wake up thinking about me?