Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Steel Icarus]

If I took the guardian seriously I’d have bigger problems than brexit

Do you NOT have bigger problems than Brexit?

 

[Pickman's model]

If I took the guardian seriously I’d have bigger problems than brexit

nice evasion. The guardian as perhaps the greatest media proponent of remain played a great part in framing the remain arguments and the notion that people who desired to leave were by necessity thick and working class. These tropes don't come from nowhere, you know

 

[RTWL]

Do you think butchersapron is racist, or Peter Shore is racist, or any other people who have consistently argued for leaving the EU from a left position for the 40+ years - like MC Corbo for example - have you not read the endless research that has repeatedly made clear that leave voters were motivated by many things, many of them complaints against neo-liberalism?

Have you not grasped in your own life that if you call someone scum who should die they are somewhat less likely to come round to your way of thinking than might otherwise be the case?

This is not just about leaving the EU. This is about unacountable sources of power manipulating elections and stimulating fascism.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Perhaps, just a suggestion mind, just putting it out there as an idea, if the movement to leave the EU hadn’t been headed by, front of housed by and sponsored by racists the Remain move might not have called them racist?

Yeah I agree that leaving the racist right to lead leave uncontested pre and post referendum was a serious error and that those on left who have thrown their lot in with the EU and european capital should have a good long think

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah I agree that leaving the racist right to lead leave uncontested pre and post referendum was a serious error and that those on left who have thrown their lot in with the EU and european capital should have a good long think

Tbh from my pov the choice was between shit and shitter, which isn't really a great set of options

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes it is. Have you talked to the working classes recently ? Hook line and sinker ! This is simply another stunning victory for the manipulation techniques devoloped by Cambridge Analytica Ltd. No more democracy ! As Nigel said ... this Populism is really catching on .

Calling for people to die isn't helping.

 

[kebabking]

Calling for people to die isn't helping.

Believing that political opinions you don't like can only be the result of some underhand manipulation and propaganda isn't going to help either.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

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Well, the sky is still where it was yesterday, and the turnip-based diet hasn't yet come to fruition....

The shit breakfasts have though! Where the fuck is the sausage? The bacon looks like it's been microwaved too. Unless it's a spoons breakfast of course in which case as you were.

 

[kebabking]

The shit breakfasts have though! Where the fuck is the sausage? The bacon looks like it's been microwaved too. Unless it's a spoons breakfast of course in which case as you were.

The sausages were last night - and the bacon, which was delicious, was grilled.

Two hour walk in the forest, during which time we met no one and watched the sun rise, a cooked breakfast upon return, followed by some moderately exuberant sex.

 

[Ax^]

where the sausage under the beans

 

[RTWL]

Believing that political opinions you don't like can only be the result of some underhand manipulation and propaganda isn't going to help either.

But they are the result of manipulation and properganda . Do I really need to point to the evidence ?

 

[kebabking]

But they are the result of manipulation and properganda . Do I really need to point to the evidence ?

I think your opinions are the result of too much hysterical Twitter...

 

[RTWL]

I think your opinions are the result of too much hysterical Twitter...

Strange . That is my exact opinion of you.
I have never touched it.
Do I need to point to the evidence ?

 

[cupid_stunt]

The amount of manipulation and propaganda from the government & the establishment to get people to vote remain far outweighed that from the various leave campaigns, some people conveniently forget that it was a dirty campaign by both sides.

Plus the amount spent on the remain side was about 50% more than that on the leave side, £19.3m v £13.3m, and that excludes the £9.3m the government spent on sending that booklet to every household.

 

[RTWL]

That could be seen as a government attempting to protect itself from ,let's face it, a new iteration of pr , that is highly effective and massively funded .

 

[kebabking]

That could be seen as a government attempting to protect itself from ,let's face it, a new iteration of pr , that is highly effective and massively funded .

Resend key, Over....

 

[kebabking]

The amount of manipulation and propaganda from the government & the establishment to get people to vote remain far outweighed that from the various leave campaigns, some people conveniently forget that it was a dirty campaign by both sides.

Plus the amount spent on the remain side was about 50% more than that on the leave side, £19.3m v £13.3m, and that excludes the £9.3m the government spent on sending that booklet to every household.

Not to mention the non-spend spend - getting the governor of the BofE to say that if you vote for brexit you'll be eating rotting turnips in the sodden fields has got to have been worth a few quid...

I wouldn't trust people from the Leave campaign as far as I could throw them, but anyone thinking that the remain campaign was nothing but Truth, Honestly, Wisdom and Altruism needs to give their head a shake - and then cut it off.

 

[RTWL]

You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but right-wing funding for Brexit out ways government funding for remain .

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not to mention the non-spend spend - getting the governor of the BofE to say that if you vote for brexit you'll be eating rotting turnips in the sodden fields has got to have been worth a few quid...

That's included in the 'amount of manipulation and propaganda from the government & the establishment.'

 

[cupid_stunt]

You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but right-wing funding for Brexit out ways government funding for remain .

Source?

 

[kebabking]

Strange . That is my exact opinion of you.
I have never touched it.
Do I need to point to the evidence ?

So, when Corbyn voted to leave the EC in the 1975 referendum, he did so only because he'd been brainwashed by reading twitter and Facebook - some 35 years or so before they'd been invented?

Have you actually considered what it is you're writing?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yeah I agree that leaving the racist right to lead leave uncontested pre and post referendum was a serious error and that those on left who have thrown their lot in with the EU and european capital should have a good long think

The left were never in a position to lead or influence the outcome though.

 

[RTWL]

So, when Corbyn voted to leave the EC in the 1975 referendum, he did so only because he'd been brainwashed by reading twitter and Facebook - some 35 years or so before they'd been invented?

Have you actually considered what it is you're writing?

Bless you.
We are talking about the recent Brexit campaign not the issue of leaving the EU. There is a difference.

 

[Azrael]

The amount of manipulation and propaganda from the government & the establishment to get people to vote remain far outweighed that from the various leave campaigns, some people conveniently forget that it was a dirty campaign by both sides.

Plus the amount spent on the remain side was about 50% more than that on the leave side, £19.3m v £13.3m, and that excludes the £9.3m the government spent on sending that booklet to every household.

This estimate not only excludes undeclared funding and foreign intervention, it doesn't drill down into how the money was spent, and how effectively. It's not for nothing that Remain campaign groups were fined small amounts for technical breaches, while Leave groups drew much heavier sanctions.

If we're to have an electoral free-for-all in Britain, OK, but to be remotely fair it must be decided openly before the campaign. Allowing one side to flout rules the other considers itself bound-by is indefensible, an issue that goes way beyond the 2016 vote.

 

[Proper Tidy]

The left were never in a position to lead or influence the outcome though.

It was in the same position it is for every political issue

 

[kebabking]

Bless you.
We are talking about the recent Brexit campaign not the issue of leaving the EU. There is a difference.

Really? You think the 2016 referendum had nothing to do with the issue of EU membership?

Have the crazies come out to play or something?

 

[cupid_stunt]

This estimate not only excludes undeclared funding and foreign intervention, it doesn't drill down into how the money was spent, and how effectively. It's not for nothing that Remain campaign groups were fined small amounts for technical breaches, while Leave groups drew much heavier sanctions.

If we're to have an electoral free-for-all in Britain, OK, but to be remotely fair it must be decided openly before the campaign. Allowing one side to flout rules the other considers itself bound-by is indefensible, an issue that goes way beyond the 2016 vote.

IIRC the largest over spend by a leave campaign group was £600k, peanuts when you look at the total spent by both sides.

 

[RTWL]

Source?

In town on my phone... will sort you out in a bit.

 

[RTWL]

Really? You think the 2016 referendum had nothing to do with the issue of EU membership?

Have the crazies come out to play or something?

Dont think I said Brexit was exlucively not about leaving the EU.

 

[Azrael]

IIRC the largest over spend by a leave campaign group was £600k, peanuts when you look at the total spent by both sides.

That's why I also highlighted how the money was spent. Did any remain group have a Facebook operation half as sophisticated as the various leave groups?

Regardless of Brexit, this is a sector crying out either for proper regulation, or the abandonment of caps and other limits so that all groups can at least have a fighting chance. At present, Britain's stuck with a situation as hopelessly lopsided as this.