Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[editor]

Oh get over it, you race obsessed whiner

If by 'race obsessed' you mean 'someone who has opposed and fought against racism and xenophobia all his life,' I'll say: so fucking what? How am I supposed to get over something that has directly led to a huge increase in racist incidents and has left people feeling unsure and frightened about their future in the UK? Should they just 'get over it' too?

 

[Steel Icarus]

I hear racist fireworks outside.

Gunpowder isn't a race!

 

[Steel Icarus]

If by 'race obsessed' you mean 'someone who has opposed and fought against racism and xenophobia all his life,' I'll say: so fucking what? How am I supposed to get over something that has directly led to a huge increase in racist incidents and has left people feeling unsure and frightened about their future in the UK? Should they just 'get over it' too?

You could start a petition

 

[editor]

You could start a petition

Yeah it's all such a laugh.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Yeah it's all such a laugh.

I'm not laughing, boss. It's all a fucking midden.

 

[brogdale]

Finally felt confident...was just about to cast my vote in the thread poll...then, looked at the options and couldn't find one that worked.

 

[Gerry1time]

Brexit hasn't happened though. We're still negotiating our future relationship with the EU. We've also got a year or so of transition period too, where little will change. I've never even been sure what 'a fully independent Britain' in the poll option above means anyway. For us to be fully independent we'd have to be completely isolationist, which the historical and archaeological records show we've never succeeded at as a bunch of people living on a relatively small island. We've always had close and open trading links with the continent, from at least the bronze age onwards, so we've always been to some degree dependent on other countries. All we've just done is effectively imposed trade sanctions on ourselves. The most well known time our trading links with the continent went backwards was after the end of the roman empire, when we returned to tribalism and internal conflict, and lost a great many of the societal advances we'd made over the previous few hundred years. This island does well when it has strong links with many other countries. It does poorly when it gets cut off. We're about to enter another period of cut offness.

The government will get obvious short term credit for being seen to 'get brexit done', but will now likely have a hard time explaining why they're going to have to make compromises around trading rights during the negotiations, because they too know that an island cannot survive by itself. 'Thankfully' for them, they've tortured the country andlet real people die through 10 years of extreme ideologically driven cuts, so they can now start to act like a normal government again and start spending money, just in time to soften the blow of brexit and distract attention from the EU compromises they'll have to make in the name of capitalism.

How people on the left celebrate this situation I've genuinely no idea.

 

[Steel Icarus]

You literally answered your final paragraph in the penultimate one

 

[Gerry1time]

You literally answered your final paragraph in the penultimate one

I'm a bit lost here. Are you saying people on the left should celebrate a tory government imposing ten years of cuts then reversing those cuts in order to buy popularity and distract from their capitalist agenda?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If by 'race obsessed' you mean 'someone who has opposed and fought against racism and xenophobia all his life,' I'll say: so fucking what? How am I supposed to get over something that has directly led to a huge increase in racist incidents and has left people feeling unsure and frightened about their future in the UK? Should they just 'get over it' too?

No. By race-obsessed I mean trotting out the tedius 'oh look at the gammons' line, which, even if what you say about the rise in hate crimes is true, is a completely hypocritical and counter-productive response to the situation.

Putting that aside, the whole narrative about there being a rise in hate crimes after the referendum due to some sort of Brexit induced mania, is a lie used to smear leave voters. The facts of the matter are that improved reporting mechanisms have resulted in a year-on-years rise in reported hate incidents since at least 2012, but this is completely disconnected from Brexit, and began many years before the referendum was even on the cards.



As for the temporary spike in incidents that occurred around the time of the referendum, this was merely the annual spike that occurs every year around June/July. A spike occurred in 2014, and again in 2015, and again in 2016, and again in 2017, and again in 2018, and again in 2019. There will be a spike in 2020 as well.



All of the reporting around this issue has been nothing but a cynical manipulation of statistics that does nothing other than further alienate leave voters, whilst simultaneously frightening minorities into believing they are more at risk now than they were before the referendum.

Racism exists. Hate exists. Brexit had no effect on these perennial evils.

Hate Crime Statistics

This briefing paper looks at Hate Crime in England & Wales using figures provided by the Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW) and the Police Recorded Crime Series. The paper also presents d…

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

 

[yield]

I'm a bit lost here. Are you saying people on the left should celebrate a tory government imposing ten years of cuts then reversing those cuts in order to buy popularity and distract from their capitalist agenda?

Corbyn has shifted the overton window to the left. The Tories have to appeal the newly won northern constituencies.

Or better late than never. HTH

 

[Steel Icarus]

I'm a bit lost here. Are you saying people on the left should celebrate a tory government imposing ten years of cuts then reversing those cuts in order to buy popularity and distract from their capitalist agenda?

Nah, I'm saying that right now the only thing to cheer is them getting in a mess.

 

[Gerry1time]

Corbyn has shifted the overton window to the left. The Tories have to appeal the newly won northern constituencies.

I don't think he has. I think the country has stayed relatively where it always was, whilst labour ran off the the left of that, and the tories ran off to the right. All that happened was that the tories noticed this situation before labour did, and ran back to the relative centre in time for the election, whilst labour consumed itself with factional infighting over the nuances of a left wing political ground that no-one else wanted to fight over. It's why the tories keep on winning. They're ideological until it costs them votes, at which point they become compromising pragmatists, because all they care about is power and the trappings for them and their friends that come with it.

 

[Voley]

Genuinely feel saddened by all this now.

 

[harpo]

Sad angry old white men have got what they think thy want. Brexit, lexit, it's still angry old white men. Hasn't the world had quite enough of you. Fuck off now.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Jesus wept

 

[Wilf]

Sad angry old white men have got what they think thy want. Brexit, lexit, it's still angry old white men. Hasn't the world had quite enough of you. Fuck off now.

It's a night for high emotions, granted, but framing it like this is back to the 'thick racists' narrative. It's no good.

 

[Proper Tidy]

It's a fucking shambles

 

[2hats]

I've never even been sure what 'a fully independent Britain' in the poll option above means anyway.

As in "independent nuclear deterrent", presumably.

As for the temporary spike in incidents that occurred around the time of the referendum, this was merely the annual spike that occurs every year around June/July. A spike occurred in 2014, and again in 2015, and again in 2016, and again in 2017, and again in 2018, and again in 2019. There will be a spike in 2020 as well.

View attachment 197268

Hate Crime Statistics

This briefing paper looks at Hate Crime in England & Wales using figures provided by the Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW) and the Police Recorded Crime Series. The paper also presents d…

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

That's not what that graph, report or the source data from the given URL show.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

As in "independent nuclear deterrent", presumably.


That's not what that graph, report or the source data from the given URL show.

It's the most reasonable interpretation of the graph, regardless of what interpretation is given by those interested in pushing the same old lie about Brexit causing hate crime.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Anything happened yet that we can blame Brexit for?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Anything happened yet that we can blame Brexit for?

Us Urbanites got grumpy at an unreasonable time of the morning.

 

[ohmyliver]

View attachment 197268

All of the reporting around this issue has been nothing but a cynical manipulation of statistics that does nothing other than further alienate leave voters, whilst simultaneously frightening minorities into believing they are more at risk now than they were before the referendum.

Racism exists. Hate exists. Brexit had no effect on these perennial evils.

Hate Crime Statistics

This briefing paper looks at Hate Crime in England & Wales using figures provided by the Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW) and the Police Recorded Crime Series. The paper also presents d…

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

err, you do realise that you've posted up a graph which shows that these spikes weren't occurring before the referendum and that the low points are higher each year after the referendums.

It seems a bit ironic to complain about a 'cynical manipulation of statistics' when you have actually posted up a graph which shows that Brexit has clearly had an effect, as evidence that is hasn't had an effect.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

err, you do realise that you've posted up a graph which shows that these spikes weren't occurring before the referendum and that the low points are higher each year after the referendums.

It seems a bit ironic to talk about a 'cynical manipulation of statistics' when you have actually posted up a graph which shows that Brexit has clearly had an effect.

There are June/July spikes occurring both before and after 2016. Every year. The upward trend starts in 2012. So no, it is not ironic.

 

[harpo]

It's a night for high emotions, granted, but framing it like this is back to the 'thick racists' narrative. It's no good.

I'm talking about you and your apologist ilk. Aw, but you're all OK. My manager has been denied settled status and my husband has no faith in the paperwork. post windrush Well done,. Remember what you enabled.

 

[2hats]

It's the most reasonable interpretation of the graph

0/10

 

[ohmyliver]

There are June/July spikes occurring both before and after 2016. Every year. The upward trend starts in 2012. So no, it is not ironic.

C'mon, look at what you posted, look at the difference between the spikes before and after the referendum.

 

[Gerry1time]

Anything happened yet that we can blame Brexit for?

We walked away from a position of considerable influence and power in the european union, carefully built up over decades. I think brexit's probably responsible for that.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

C'mon, look at what you posted, look at the difference between the spikes before and after the referendum.

The earlier part of the graph looks more squished due to the scale of the graph being altered by the higher figures later on - higher figures that are a result of increased reporting. If you plotted just 2014 and 2015 the spikes would be more obvious.

 

[Wilf]

I'm talking about you and your apologist ilk. Aw, but you're all OK. My manager has been denied settled status and my husband has no faith in the paperwork. post windrush Well done,. Remember what you enabled.

Do you think I voted for Brexit?