Iran

[elbows]

One of CNNs angles on this today:

The suspected attacks took place while Japan's leader was in Tehran


News that two tankers carrying "Japan-related cargo" were involved in a suspected attack broke during a high-stakes Japanese diplomatic mission to Iran.

The vessels were stricken in the Gulf of Oman, off the coast of Iran, on Thursday morning as Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was meeting Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Tehran.

Abe, who arrived in Tehran on a visit widely viewed as an attempt to mediate US-Iran tensions, has not yet commented on the incident.

One of the tankers, Kokuka Courageous, is owned by Japan-based company Kokuka Sangyo. According to Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, both tankers were carrying "Japan-related cargo."

Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said "suspicious doesn't begin to describe" the incident coinciding with Abe's visit.

"We voice concern about the suspicious incidents, which happened today for the oil tankers affiliated to Japan concurrently with a meeting between the Japanese prime minister and Supreme Leader," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Seyyed Abbas Mousavi said in a post on Twitter.

(currently a few stories down on their live page about these incidents Gulf of Oman tankers hit in suspected attack: Live updates - CNN )

 

[not-bono-ever]

given the size of the USA presence and their state of alert, I woul have thought they would have an inkling of what has gone on here?

 

[Don Troooomp]

I gather Iran has three Russian Kilo class subs, but it's unlikely they'd have one the deed because the massive US task force would be far too likely to have hunted them down and sunk them.
Some reports are saying it was a surface attack in international waters, but small craft would have been easy prey for US aircraft and would have had great difficulty in returning to Iranian waters, and even being there would hardly have protected them if they'd done the job.
Given what at least one of the ships was and what it was doing, I find it very hard to believe the Iranians would have been even slightly interested in damaging them.
However, the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia all share the same motive.

As I said before, this with the most to gain have to be the most likely suspects.

 

[elbows]

I wonder if the resulting propaganda from this incident will be as awkward as it was last time. Disjointed, skeptical to differing degrees depending on the country and the moment, and not sustained as the top headline via a steady drip drip of new factoids. Played down at least as much as it was talked up.

Such awkward failures to fully capitalise on a situation could be a sign of a number of different things. It could be 'the obvious enemy' but you dont actually want an escalation, or you dont want to acknowledge their capabilities, so you hold back on making the most of the implications of the incident. It could be 'the obvious ally', but you dont agree with their methods or their desire to escalate at that moment. It could be any number of variations on these themes, or other 'international games' that dont actually involve the public war drums of the variety we have become attuned to.

 

[agricola]

I wonder if the resulting propaganda from this incident will be as awkward as it was last time. Disjointed, skeptical to differing degrees depending on the country and the moment, and not sustained as the top headline via a steady drip drip of new factoids. Played down at least as much as it was talked up.

Such awkward failures to fully capitalise on a situation could be a sign of a number of different things. It could be 'the obvious enemy' but you dont actually want an escalation, or you dont want to acknowledge their capabilities, so you hold back on making the most of the implications of the incident. It could be 'the obvious ally', but you dont agree with their methods or their desire to escalate at that moment. It could be any number of variations on these themes, or other 'international games' that dont actually involve the public war drums of the variety we have become attuned to.

TBF a lot of it could be down (if this is Iran carrying out these attacks) to the current US administration wanting to avoid acknowledging that this is a consequence of their deliberate attack on the JCPOA and the likelyhood that the US will respond to these attacks by negotiating with the Iranians.

 

[elbows]

Yes that sort of thing could be a factor. Although its not like the USA stops short of blaming Iran, and I should not yet presume that the response this time will be the same as the previous response.

 

[elbows]

From a piece on a somewhat different topic:



UK's special forces set for new Russia mission

 

[krtek a houby]

Dubious timing, whilst Abe was in talks with Iran. Pompeo certain Iran is behind it, but no evidence. Surely the US would not go to war without evidence?

 

[Balbi]

Iran would definitely fuck up Japanese owned tankers while they've got the Japanese PM in Iran for talks. That makes total sense.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Dubious timing, whilst Abe was in talks with Iran. Pompeo certain Iran is behind it, but no evidence. Surely the US would not go to war without evidence?

Lol

 

[Don Troooomp]

Dubious timing, whilst Abe was in talks with Iran. Pompeo certain Iran is behind it, but no evidence. Surely the US would not go to war without evidence?

More so when the Japanese ownership is a lie anyway.
The Americans have now released a video of Iranians removing a mine from one of the ships while it was in International waters, but they totally failed to intercept the revolutionary guard boat.
I'm sitting on a pink elephant as I type.

 

[mauvais]

Why do you think it's not Japanese?

 

[LDC]

More so when the Japanese ownership is a lie anyway.
The Americans have now released a video of Iranians removing a mine from one of the ships while it was in International waters, but they totally failed to intercept the revolutionary guard boat.
I'm sitting on a pink elephant as I type.

So, a false flag then? A fake video made by the US? Or do you have another theory?

 

[Poi E]

From a piece on a somewhat different topic:

View attachment 174140

UK's special forces set for new Russia mission

Ahh the old SAS spin. So much bullshit built up around that part of the British Army. Surgical operations, only get the bad guy etc. But it all shows how impotent the UK is as it's been made a laughing stock by Putin.

 

[likesfish]

The IRG is quite capable of playing stupid games as well some Iranians have ambitions of being the regional power and they back Hezbollah and are involved in Syria and Yemen.

 

[elbows]

No ambition about it, they are A regional power, one that isnt afraid to play dirty. So I certainly dont rule out Iran as responsible for this. I dont exclude other possibilities too, but at least we are getting a bit more detail and some sort of evidence this time.

 

[Dogsauce]

Iran ‘removing’ a mine isn’t the same thing as Iran planting a mine. Seems a bit of an obvious thing to state, but nobody in the press seems to be making this point.

Maybe they’d want to know the origin of the attack and this might be a key bit of evidence? Not like they weren’t around in the area anyway - they rescued some of the crew.

Iran is ran by cunts (like most of the surrounding countries) but still worth a bit of scepticism given previous history of the accusers (babies and incubators, 45 minutes ad nauseum).

 

[Dogsauce]

Iran would definitely fuck up Japanese owned tankers while they've got the Japanese PM in Iran for talks. That makes total sense.

Tankers weren’t Japanese, just to be clear. Not transporting Iranian oil either. Bit of fake news going around on this one.

 

[mauvais]

Tankers weren’t Japanese, just to be clear. Not transporting Iranian oil either. Bit of fake news going around on this one.

Why do you think the Kokuka Courageous isn't Japanese?

 

[not-bono-ever]

This is a straits issue not an Iranian oil issue. Messing with Chinese carrying Iranian oil isn’t likely to help anyone- they do however load at around Banda Abbas and need to navigate the straits. China are testing the US in this , claiming that the unilateral US sanctions go against the UN mandate.

 

[krtek a houby]

In Tokyo, the owner of the Kokuka Courageous said Friday its sailors saw “flying objects” before the attack, suggesting it wasn’t damaged by mines. Company president Yutaka Katada offered no evidence for his claim, which contradicts the U.S. military account.

U.S. blames Iran for attacks on tankers, including one operated by a Japanese firm, in Gulf of Oman | The Japan Times

 

[Dogsauce]

Why do you think the Kokuka Courageous isn't Japanese?

Apologies - article I read (on BBC) said Norwegian and Singapore - might have been registered rather than owned which caused my confusion. Anyway, neither was transporting Iranian oil which was alleged.

 

[mauvais]

Apologies - article I read (on BBC) said Norwegian and Singapore - might have been registered rather than owned which caused my confusion. Anyway, neither was transporting Iranian oil which was alleged.

Two ships, one is Norwegian owned, the Front Altair. The Kokuka Courageous is 'managed' by a Singapore company and Singapore was also its destination, from Saudi. It's carrying methanol. With a Panama flag just to confuse things further.

 

[Poi E]

Attributing any part of merchant shipping to a specific nation is pointless. The first globalised industry.

 

[Patteran]

One of the ships is owned by shipping magnate/Bond villain John Fredriksen. Bit of background here about his history running tankers in & out of the Gulf during the Iran/Iraq war (added for context not as part of the 'who dunnit?')

That Time a Norwegian Shipper Held Iran’s Oil Hostage - International Man

 

[LDC]

Two ships, one is Norwegian owned, the Front Altair. The Kokuka Courageous is 'managed' by a Singapore company and Singapore was also its destination, from Saudi. It's carrying methanol. With a Panama flag just to confuse things further.

So Don Troooomp, how about the owners, contents, and destinations that you were going on about?

 

[Don Troooomp]

So, a false flag then? A fake video made by the US? Or do you have another theory?

Please show either tanker was Japanese.
Ship registry sites posted earlier in the thread will guide you

 

[Don Troooomp]

So Don Troooomp, how about the owners, contents, and destinations that you were going on about?

I posted with links earlier - not my problem if you're too lazy to look

 

[fishfinger]

Please show either tanker was Japanese.

Japan shipping company Kokuka Sangyo says its tanker was attacked in Gulf - Reuters


KOKUKA SANGYO CO.,LTD.



Japanese enough for you Don Troooomp?

 

[teqniq]

Japanese tanker owner contradicts US on Gulf of Oman attack

The owner of the Japanese tanker attacked on Thursday said US reports have provided “false” information about what happened in the Gulf of Oman.

The ship operator said “flying objects” that may have been bullets were the cause of damage to the vessel, rather than mines used by Iranian forces, as the US has suggested.

Yutaka Katada, chief executive of the Japanese company operating the ship called Kokuka Courageous, one of two vessels attacked near the Strait of Hormuz on Thursday, said the damage could not have been caused by mines or torpedos that are shot underwater, since the damage was reportedly above the ship’s waterline.

“It seems that something flew towards them. That created the hole, is the report I’ve received,” Mr Katada said at a press conference in Tokyo on Friday, the Financial Times reported. Mr Katada also described reports of a mine attack as "false" according to several outlets in attendance at the press conference....