In Place of Cuts

[glenquagmire]

I wasnt talking shite that the conversation took place. So long as I'm not the sort of loony who commits war crimes and gets the country into the best part of £1,000,000,000,000 debt then I'm hard pressed to be as loony as the Labour government and Compass activists who campaign on their behalf.

Thanks for that, I'll mention it to my Bilderberg mates at the next Labour Party meeting.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Thanks for that, I'll mention it to my Bilderberg mates at the next Labour Party meeting.

What's Bildeberg got to do with it? (I'll conceed that that Mandellson is a member and oversaw much of the bailout provision within days of his "mysterious" return)

Perhaps you are one of the loonies who said for years that it didn't exist?

It certainly would be a good idea if you got some answers at any Labour meeting regarding the enormous debt your party have saddled future generations with, perhaps you should focus on that instead of dreaming up nonsense attacks on your critics.

 

[glenquagmire]

Yeah, I'll bear that in mind thanks. The whole issue of the national debt wouldn't have occurred to any of us without your help.

You fucking loonspud.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Yeah, I'll bear that in mind thanks. The whole issue of the national debt wouldn't have occurred to any of us without your help.

You fucking loonspud.

The point is that the issue of this national debt wouldn't have occured at all without the lunatic "light touch regulation" so celebrated by the right wing Brown and his cheerleaders.

Again, no amount of swearing or namecalling can or should detract from this.

 

[glenquagmire]

Yes, and no amount of foaming at the mouth on internet messageboards will make any difference to it either.

Grrr!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

no amount of foaming at the mouth on internet messageboards will make any difference to it either.

Fair point.

Yes

Which strongly implies you accept mine.

 

[glenquagmire]

What, that "Brown and his cheerleaders" are largely responsible? Obviously.

But without being a complete political simpleton, I'm not sure how you could leap to the conclusion that us abominable Labour lefts are Brownite cheerleaders though. Or that us all suddenly leaving the Labour Party would lead to a wonderful left unity project (presumably of the woolly, greeny, pointless centre leftism which you seem to espouse).

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Lord Digby of Waddling Chunk Upon Frig was on Newsnight yesterday. His proposition for saving the economy was the legalisation and regulation of prostitution & drugs and a flat tax for all. The first two are not necessarily beyond the realm of reasonable debate but I thought it was very telling that these were the first things that came to Pimp Daddy Jones' mind. You could almost see the pound signs flashing in sprawling toad's eyes as he dreamed of the bucks he could make from renting out crack fiends to happy punters.

Personally speaking (in my own capacity) I would set gurkhas armed with kukri knifes aboot him.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

What, that "Brown and his cheerleaders" are largely responsible? Obviously.

But without being a complete political simpleton, I'm not sure how you could leap to the conclusion that us abominable Labour lefts are Brownite cheerleaders though. Or that us all suddenly leaving the Labour Party would lead to a wonderful left unity project (presumably of the woolly, greeny, pointless centre leftism which you seem to espouse).

When I reffered to the "centre left" I was talking about all the voters Labour had lost from 1997 and 2001, as Butchers refered to.

I am also referring to a traditional social market model long since abandoned
under PFI by Labour, who cant and wont even establish proper public transport for this country.

It's fair to say that GPEW is broadly of the centre left, though it is a more nuanced position favouring co-operative and local ownership over state centralisation. In any case, it is laughable and sad that a party that isnt explicitly socialist is still so far to the left of Labour.

All the sneering on all the internets can't cover for the fact that anyone of the left in the Labour Party is part of a machine that wants us fingerprinted and eyescanned for the database, took massive secret loans without the treasurer being told, told constant lies about war, completely knackered the economy and whose councils consistently sacrifice the environment at the altar of "development" (often in exchange for funding)

Centre leftism may be "wooly and pointless" - it is a damn sight less damaging than the corrupt right wing authoritarian agenda, you appear to have played a part in.

If Labour's real left (not as big as some suppose) were to stop pretending they can win the party back and instead make common cause with Respect types I reckon they'd be winning fairly impressive amount of seats within 3 election cycles. It wont happen while the denial continues and the denial will be even worse in opposition.

 

[glenquagmire]

All the sneering on all the internets can't cover for the fact that anyone of the left in the Labour Party is part of a machine that wants us fingerprinted and eyescanned for the database, took massive secret loans without the treasurer being told, told constant lies about war, completely knackered the economy and whose councils consistently sacrifice the environment at the altar of "development" (often in exchange for funding)

Centre leftism may be "wooly and pointless" - it is a damn sight less damaging than the corrupt right wing authoritarian agenda, you appear to have played a part in.

If Labour's real left (not as big as some suppose) were to stop pretending they can win the party back and instead make common cause with Respect types I reckon they'd be winning fairly impressive amount of seats within 3 election cycles. It wont happen while the denial continues and the denial will be even worse in opposition.

Yada yada yada, thanks again for advice, we'll take it all on board no doubt.

Respect types?

 

[butchersapron]

A new one from the TUC

All Pain, No Gain: The Case Against Cuts (pdf warning)

People should also be watching the ToUChstone cut-watch blog and Richard Murphy's Tax Research UK site to see just what long -term damage this cutting madness is going to do. Or read Wolf or Krugman in the FT and other papers.

 

[treelover]

all local BBC News TV stations tonight will be reporting on where the first cuts will be in their respective areas, it doesn't sound good, the BBC's Mark Eaton has also just said 'we are entering an era of protest, campaigning, confrontation as communities and groups across the country try to save 'their' swimming pool, their park, their hospital'

we should have a cuts sticky so posters can put what is happening in their area.


btw, good to see the TUC moving a bit faster and using modern media, but will they call a national protest, if not who will?

 

[two sheds]

I'd like to see huge windfall taxes like the tories used to do but now seem to have forgotten about. Some people have done very well out of the last few years thank you very much, and they're the ones who should be contributing to the economy now.

The 'public consultations' on where the cuts should come say it all - no discussion about where taxes should be higher, only where 'the' cuts should come.

 

[shagnasty]

I have just signed up here & do not know if there is a welcome area but I have been invited by a poster called monster munch who says here is a place we can discuss current affairs properly.

Welcome rern i hope you find what you want

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

No need for cuts, the economy is clearly bouncing back.

http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/bonuses-are-back-top-boardrooms

 

[The39thStep]

The cuts have begun already .That £6bn translated into approx £1.5m off the Childrens Trust locally and cuts in cohesion, PREVENT, and community safety funding.Some of this might be able to be swallowed painfully this year but not next year. Budget on 22nd, spending review Sept/October.

 

[belboid]

another £2billion just announced.

Obviously no one in Sheffield Hallam was ever likely to work at Forgemasters, so fuck them, eh Nick? Future Jobs Fund? Young Person's/Jobseeker's Guarantee? Obviously worthless and would never do anything to pay for themselves. That £25mill for the Stonehenge Visitor Centre would probably have paid for itself before the end of this government.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Obviously no one in Sheffield Hallam was ever likely to work at Forgemasters, so fuck them, eh Nick?

Just heard about this. Utterly, utterly stupid. Whether one approves or not there is likely to be a load more nuclear power plants getting built. The really heavy castings required can currently only be made in one factory in the world, in Japan. Forgemasters was to be the second. This is such a load of short-sighted fucking pish.

 

[butchersapron]

another £2billion just announced.

Obviously no one in Sheffield Hallam was ever likely to work at Forgemasters, so fuck them, eh Nick? Future Jobs Fund? Young Person's/Jobseeker's Guarantee? Obviously worthless and would never do anything to pay for themselves. That £25mill for the Stonehenge Visitor Centre would probably have paid for itself before the end of this government.

Now up to £10 billion today alone. Each of these cuts are going to enlarge not diminish the deficit.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

C+P from Guardian Blog:

These are the projects that have been cut:

Department for Culture Media and Sport: Stonehenge Visitor Centre: £25m
Communities and Local Government: Local Authority Leader Boards: £16m
Business Innovation and Skills: Sheffield Forgemasters International Limited: £80m
Department for Work and Pensions: Roll-out of the Future Jobs Fund: £290m (previously announced as part of Osborne's £6bn cuts)
DWP: Six-month offer recruitment subsidies: £30m (previously announced)
DWP: Extension of Young Person's Guarantee to 2011-12: £450m
DWP: Two-year Jobseeker's Guarantee: £515m
Department of Health: Active Challenge Routes: Walk England: £2m
DoH: County Sports Partnerships: £6m
DoH: North Tees and Hartlepool hospital: £450m
Local Government: Local Authority Business Growth Initiative (LABGI): £50m (previously announced)
Regional Development Agencies: Outukumpu: £13m

Total: £1.9bn (£370m previously announced)

These are the projects that have been suspended:

Department for Culture Media and Sport: Libraries Modernisation Programme: £12m
Communities and Local Government: Sheffield Retail Quarter: £12m
CLG: Kent Thameside Strategic Transport Programme: £23m
Business Innovation and Skills: University Enterprise Capital Fund: £25m
BIS: Newton Scholarships: £25m
Department of Health: Health Research Support Initiative: £73m
DoH: Leeds Holt Park Well-being Centre: £50m
Ministry of Justice: Birmingham Magistrates Court: £94m
(2010-11 element included in Osborne's £6.2bn announcement)
Ministry of Defence: Successor Deterrent Extension to Concept Phase Long Lead Items: £66m
MoD: Search and Rescue Helicopters: £4.7bn
Department for Transport: Search and Rescue Helicopters - joint procurement with MoD: £2.3bn
DfT: A14 road: £1.1bn

Total: £8.5bn

 

[treelover]

can we have a cuts sticky, the TUC has a good cuts blog as BA pointed out

 

[treelover]

'Outukumpu: £13m'

another steel company, crazy...

 

[treelover]

'Communities and Local Government: Sheffield Retail Quarter: £12m'


Just noticed this, that is Sheffield City centre fucked then , its already really struggling.

 

[butchersapron]

Just heard about this. Utterly, utterly stupid. Whether one approves or not there is likely to be a load more nuclear power plants getting built. The really heavy castings required can currently only be made in one factory in the world, in Japan. Forgemasters was to be the second. This is such a load of short-sighted fucking pish.

That Clegg's much trumpeted promise of "young people finding work in thriving local manufacturing companies" in action i'm afraid.

 

[_angel_]

Remind me how creating less jobs and promoting unemployment kick starts the economy?

 

[butchersapron]

Easy, you get less tax in and pay out more in benefits and there's less consumer spending. Which is good isn't it?

 

[The39thStep]

Now doubt that some of this spending by New labour was to bolster up their vote. Ideal opportunity for the Coalition to convince the public that there is waste/excess funding in order to make deeper cuts in the budget and spending review. Up here opposition Labour cllrs positioning themselves as defending residents from govt cuts.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Watching "Newsnight" last night, I got incredibly fucked off at the section with David Milliband (new Conservatives Labour) and Michael Fallon (Conservative) talking about the cuts. Milliband mentioned the Forgemasters loan, and Fallon wittered about how the project would only provide 160 new jobs, and how that worked out as a cost of £500,000 per job.
Now, forgive me if I'm making an elementary error here, but as far as I'm aware, the (secured) loan incurs NO cost to the government, because it is repaid even if the borrower defaults. Those jobs would have had no nett cost to the government.
Did Millitwat pick up on this? Did he fuck!!

 

[ExtraRefined]

to stop the rich rebranding much of their income as capital gains, only taxed at 18%. That is a key reason why on average they pay only 34% tax, and not the 40% they should.

This is probably going to happen, at least in part

To help the lowest paid, the 10p tax band would be restored and the basic rate put back to 22%.

This is a cost, not a saving.

Non-doms could no longer pretend to live in Monaco while living in the UK for four working days a week.

How? And if you were to do this successfully, how many people would you anticipate accepting the extra tax rather than changing their working arrangements.

A Tobin tax on financial transactions

Would move finance to Dubai and Shanghai, who certainly won't join in on international taxation

tougher tax-avoidance measures

Should be alongside "efficiency savings" in the big list of clichéd and unachievable spending reduction plans

and the axing of Trident

The only bit of the military worth keeping

ID cards

Now done by the Tories, Labour would have kept it

aircraft carriers and fighter planes

Probably going to happen, although the eurofighter is too expensive to be worth backing out of. Certainly not needed when we can just nuke people.

brings total savings to £47bn a year.

Or not.

 

[treelover]

Unison launch Save Our Services(SOS) campaign, god it feels like the 80's

http://www.peoples-press.com/today.pdf