Immigration .. part of neo liberalism/Thatcherism??
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
cockneyrebel
New Member
There is a big difference between that and national borders/nationalism, which is what the "no borders" slogan is about.
Foreign spies accepted. But are you saying someone can't be working class if they're a murderer?! What about other crimes?
The point is that the "no borders" slogan is about the right of the working class, collectively, to freedom of movement and recognises that national borders have come out of nationalism and the agenda of the ruling class.
Not having a go but I think the points you're making about murderers and foreign spies are pedantic.
rioted said:
No, what is desperate is wittering on about 'communist societies' when history is moving rapidly away from any possibility of these and the left, or the radicals, or whatever you want to call them, are largely incapable of maintaining the kind of relevance to the situation we're actually in that might allow for some kind of addressing of this situation.
You couldn't make it up.
Epicurus said:
Never said that the world did end at Dover; like yesterday, you keep putting words into my gob.
Of course the class struggle will always be there. There are countless instances of the class struggle in action right now, large and small. It doesn't mean that it will culminate in communism.
Do you think everything I post is meant to be a quote from you? When I quote your words I use the quote box.LLETSA said:
Fancy answering this question?
Do the people that think immigrants occupying housing and therefore not allowing working class English people to have them are better or worse than single parents who have chosen to have children and not work and live on benefit?
You said this and I pointed out that it isn’t correct, what is wrong with that?
LLETSA said:
Epicurus said:
Why is that question directed at me? My only contribution to the central argument of this thread has been to point out that racism in Britain isn't as strong as it is in certain other places.
I have passed no opinion on immigration controls, positive or negative.
Epicurus said:
Nothing is wrong with diagreeing with something I've said. However, if I disagree in my turn, I'm obviously going to say so, aren't I?
And I repeat: just because major examples of people fighting back against the neo-liberal agenda exist, it in no way means that we are heading towards any kind of communist world. We are actually moving away from any possibility of one.
You seem very “I” centric, the question was posted in the thread for everyone to answer, no-one has and as you answered my post I thought I’d ask you?LLETSA said:
You are not compelled to answer; I’d like someone who has said that immigrants are causing a housing shortage to answer it, as the UK has the highest number of teen mother & single mothers (per head) of any other developed country and I think it would be interesting to hear their response.
In the developed world where they have what is loosely termed Democracy people are very limited in the government they can vote for, in most countries it is a choice between two main parties and sometime a choice of 3.
I don’t know about the UK much but as far as I know there has never been a national Socialist party; so I’m not sure people have ever been given the choice.
In South America there has over the years been a number of Socialist parties voted into power by the people, but then the Yankee Imperialists have destabilised that government and substituted it with a right wing military Junta.
But if you take a world view it seems to me that there are far more groups around the world fighting for a socialist system than any other system.
I don’t know about the UK much but as far as I know there has never been a national Socialist party; so I’m not sure people have ever been given the choice.
In South America there has over the years been a number of Socialist parties voted into power by the people, but then the Yankee Imperialists have destabilised that government and substituted it with a right wing military Junta.
But if you take a world view it seems to me that there are far more groups around the world fighting for a socialist system than any other system.
rioted said:Genuine question: Why are you posting on a thread about immigration, then?
Genuine answer: I came in on a comment about the related topic of racism in the UK and focussed on that subject.
It's hardly the first thread to stray off the precise subject to one degree or another, is it?
reallyoldhippy said:
.. but please how do you get to that struggle?? .. it's not there at the minute is it?? to create a new movment that can defeat cap. we need to be honest and we need to go back to basics to the grass roots .. no revolution will be built on slogans it will be built on ordinary people wanting one .. TINA ..That struggle is happening all the time. It is happening every time someone blames their shitty conditions on immigrants and somebody else opposes that.durruti02 said:
Patty said:
patty i presume like me you have 20 years and more experiance as a worker and shop steward (tng/nupe/unison) in the manual sector ?? yes?? .. sure privatisation is a big issue ..
also that our jobs have been cut by 50% over the last 10 years and when we are behind we get agency staff .. on shite money .. from congo/ .rumania /ghana/ nigeria etc etc and bracknell!
and it is a big issue that most of the people i work with can not get council housing on th estates where they grew up .. yet the people doing the agency jobs can .. are the racist cos of this?? no !!.. are they anti capitalist ??.. yes to an extent .. but they dp think workers /communities etc should control immigration .. they see absolutely we are being screwed and that immigration is part of it .. and to repeat are they are no more racist beacsue of it.. they are more anti gov/blair etc .. and what do they say to the left position on it all?? 'wankers'
durruti02 said:
Why is that, then? I suspect its bit of an urban myth. IME immigrants tend to get the houses that the indigenous don't want.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
The "international working class" can still act as a working-class either with 0% migration of workers and with 100% migration of workers.
There was very little (hardly any I'd claim) voluntary intra-European state migration at the end of the first world war- but a huge revolutionary wave.
reallyoldhippy said:
Why is that, then? I suspect its bit of an urban myth. IME immigrants tend to get the houses that the indigenous don't want.
you really have no idea mate .. people i work with who would have been housed in council housing before are now having to commute 30 evn 50 miles one of them ..
Well, that's one way of avoiding the issue. Are we going to have to trade credentials? Try addressing the question.durruti02 said:
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
durruti02 said:
I would second that.
No mate, it's you who have no idea. I know people who commute long ways. It's because they choose not to take up accomodation in "hard-to-let" council estates. NOT because those houses aren't available. The demise of council housing HAS had an effect, but that is not the fault of immigrants.durruti02 said:
reallyoldhippy said:
you have not read the thread .. no one is blaming immigrants .. waht is being balmed is capitalism and how it uses ALL of us .. and in particular periods ( restructuring for neo liberalism) uses immigrants .. which it has to house somewhere .. and so trhatcher got rid of sons and daughters and changed priorities for housing etc etc etc
sorry but you do not give across to me that you have a realistic idea of where/how we get to no borders ( which i obviously belive in as an asperation) i have put forward that we move forward by increasing local w/c power .. as in HI/IWCA ..
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