Immigration. Is it time for the right, to REALLY piss off the left?

[laptop]

Pawn, in his heyday:



(ca. 1951)

And NO DANCING!!1!

 

[Rune]

So why limit those who would agree with you to the sensible hard working tax payers? Who else would agree with you? By implication only the sensible hard working tax payers agree with you.

 

[The Pious Pawn]

I do not think it is fair to high jack this thread , I think it would be better to start another thread do you not agree ? .

 

[Rune]

I do not think it is fair to high jack this thread , I think it would be better to start another thread do you not agree ? .

If you want to. I don't mind.

 

[Mallard]

Why dont we have the right to cherry pick ? Dont you think the people who allready live here should have a say in what happens ?

If you had a referendum on immigration you Know what the response would be . A big fat no . We can not cope with the numbers that want to come here simple maths .

Who's we and why the outdated Malthusian bollocks? I don't see the validity of your referendum statement either. I was hoping you were being ironic. Sadly I was wrong. I imagine I'll be on 'ignore' soon.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

All I can say is that the 'left' however you define it need to do something convincing around immigration soon At least two people I know who are working class and had always voted Labour are now going to vote BNP, I dont believe them to be atypical.

 

[audiotech]

All I can say is that the 'left' however you define it need to do something convincing around immigration soon

Any suggestions from you which doesn't involve parrotting the BNP?

I would suggest migrant workers organising and fighting alongside other workers.

 

[danny la rouge]

I would suggest migrant workers organising and fighting alongside other workers.

I would suggest the other way round. But yes.

 

[audiotech]

I would suggest the other way round. But yes.

Ah yes, but I see migrant workers already organising.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

Any suggestions from you which doesn't involve parrotting the BNP?

I would suggest migrant workers organising and fighting alongside other workers.

I think that is a total fantasy. The reason people become migrant workers is because they wish to make money and there is no reason for them to inconvenience themselves through ' fighting alongside' what you may think of as their fellow workers.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

Ah yes, but I see migrant workers already organising.

I think that headline should read 'Migrant Worker already organising'

 

[William of Walworth]

think there are to many people coming to this country . We should have selective immigration were we only accept people who can fill skills shortages . Then a total rework of the benefit system in this country get all the lazy parasites doing something usefull and earn there hand out . Same with people on sickness benefit there are jobs they can do . And single mothers should be given help to learn new skills and free child care if they do not accept this no more benefits , girls will soon start thinking before they get pregnant . We are to soft in this country time to get tough it will never happen though the rot has set in it is to late to save .

I'd like to congratulate Tonka Toy on being 20,000 times less of a thick-as-pigshit bigot than Pawn.

No moaning Pawn -- you've called me a bigot often enough, but the above posts by you hoist you by your own petard.

If you insist on posting reactionary, ill argued, backward, Thatcherite shite as this, you can expect whatever reaction you get.

Quite a depressing thread all round in fact, and sums up why I rarely contribute to immigration-related 'debates'

Whovever said the anti no borders stuff from Tonka Toy is aiming at a straw man, is right -- hardly anyone on Urban is REALLY pro no borders, I'm certainly not on practicality grounds alone.

 

[William of Walworth]

All I can say is that the 'left' however you define it need to do something convincing around immigration soon At least two people I know who are working class and had always voted Labour are now going to vote BNP, I dont believe them to be atypical.

What did you do to dissuade them?

(I don't mean persuade them to vote Labour, I mean what did you to discourage them from voting BNP?)

 

[CharlieMuffin]

What did you do to dissuade them?

(I don't mean persuade them to vote Labour, I mean what did you to discourage them from voting BNP?)

My moral arguments and tales of Nazi Germany fell on death ears they were simply frightened about unemployment and didn't care about anything else.One of them also made a point that he identified with being British and felt that he had a right to live in a culture he recognised and felt comfortable with ( I am paraphrasing quite a bit here).

 

[William of Walworth]

.One of them also made a point that he identified with being British and felt that he had a right to live in a culture he recognised and felt comfortable with ( I am paraphrasing quite a bit here).

The old 'foreigners are severely threatening my right to be British' malarkey -- the BNP don't half play on those fears

 

[TonkaToy]

I'd like to congratulate Tonka Toy on being 20,000 times less of a thick-as-pigshit bigot than Pawn.

No moaning Pawn -- you've called me a bigot often enough, but the above posts by you hoist you by your own petard.

If you insist on posting reactionary, ill argued, backward, Thatcherite shite as this, you can expect whatever reaction you get.

Quite a depressing thread all round in fact, and sums up why I rarely contribute to immigration-related 'debates'

Whovever said the anti no borders stuff from Tonka Toy is aiming at a straw man, is right -- hardly anyone on Urban is REALLY pro no borders, I'm certainly not on practicality grounds alone.

You still think I'm a bigot though, don't you?

 

[audiotech]

I think that headline should read 'Migrant Worker already organising'

You missed the group picture I see.

 

[audiotech]

I think that is a total fantasy. The reason people become migrant workers is because they wish to make money and there is no reason for them to inconvenience themselves through ' fighting alongside' what you may think of as their fellow workers.

After a quick search I found this and I notice it's not "total fantasy":

When First Bus drivers in Stoke took strike action, Czech, Polish and Hungarian drivers stood alongside British drivers on the picket line. Filipino and Indian nurses also marched on the marvellous 5,000 strong march of NHS workers in Stoke...

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2006/448/index.html?id=pp6.htm

 

[durruti02]

After a quick search I found this and I notice it's not "total fantasy":


http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2006/448/index.html?id=pp6.htm

you missed this bit! however it is an excellent article and i'll start a thread


"However, although it's generally true that industrial struggle of this type as well as the conscious intervention of socialists will cut across the growth of the far right, it is not an automatic process.

For example, some NHS workers facing the threat of redundancy at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire, who took part in the march - incensed at the betrayal of New Labour and with no serious alternative in their area - voted for the BNP one week later in the local elections. Similarly, some council workers who took one-day strike action only weeks before the local elections still voted for the BNP, such is their anger towards New Labour."

 

[William of Walworth]

You still think I'm a bigot though, don't you?

Take backhanded compliments when you get them. I'm not at war with you, I tend to stay out of these threads most of the time.

 

[William of Walworth]

For example, some NHS workers facing the threat of redundancy at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire, who took part in the march - incensed at the betrayal of New Labour and with no serious alternative in their area - voted for the BNP one week later in the local elections. Similarly, some council workers who took one-day strike action only weeks before the local elections still voted for the BNP, such is their anger towards New Labour."

No quarrel with them feeling betrayed, but what kind of twisted logic leads a (presumably unionised) activist/campaigner on a leftish anti cuts/anti redundancy ticket, to vote BNP?

Genuinely puzzled.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

After a quick search I found this and I notice it's not "total fantasy":


http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2006/448/index.html?id=pp6.htm

Even though I do not necessarily take SP propaganda as good coin I may be persauded to change 'total fantasy' to almost total fantasy.

 

[TonkaToy]

No quarrel with them feeling betrayed, but what kind of twisted logic leads a (presumably unionised) activist/campaigner on a leftish anti cuts/anti redundancy ticket, to vote BNP?

Genuinely puzzled.

That's anger for you I suppose. Maybe some people feel that a BNP vote is the biggest kick in the cunt they could deliver to the government. I would much rather vote Tory. Hold on a minute, I live in a safe Tory seat.

Nurse!!!

 

[tbaldwin]

The old 'foreigners are severely threatening my right to be British' malarkey -- the BNP don't half play on those fears

But those fears are real enough and shouldnt be ignored by people who hate the BNP.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

You missed the group picture I see.

I suppose it could be two Poles each holding a pole , so to speak.

 

[audiotech]

Even though I do not necessarily take SP propaganda as good coin I may be persauded to change 'total fantasy' to almost total fantasy.

It's either fantasy or it is not.

I'll accept that there will be some difficulties trying to recruit and organise migrant labour into the established unions, but the examples shown indicate that it can be done, as can strengthening ties, local and internationally, with other workers.

 

[audiotech]

That's anger for you I suppose. Maybe some people feel that a BNP vote is the biggest kick in the cunt they could deliver to the government.

A radical, lesbian, feminist i met briefly (phew ) told me that she had voted NF (in the late 70's) for exactly those same reasons. Then it was Callaghan's government, record inflation and cuts to be made.

 

[CharlieMuffin]

It's either fantasy or it is not.
.

Your not a Trot by any chance? Otherwise we might have to start talking about
wether a car without a broken engine is really a car

 

[audiotech]

Your not a Trot by any chance? Otherwise we might have to start talking about
wether a car without a broken engine is really a car

I'm all ears and hot to trot.

 

[treelover]

Thats what we (the left) have to try to understand

No quarrel with them feeling betrayed, but what kind of twisted logic leads a (presumably unionised) activist/campaigner on a leftish anti cuts/anti redundancy ticket, to vote BNP?

Genuinely puzzled.