Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[dylanredefined]

The Jobs should be filled by Uk workers if possible .If foreign labour is needed
it should be because uk cant fill the post and not as an excuse to save money. When I worked in the USA as a nurse it was because there was a shortage of nurses .Probably was cheaper than an American RN but since they couldn't get any hardly the point.
The Italians should be treated well its whoever came up with this idea who is the cunt.

 

[tombowler]

is it really true that workers employed to work in the UK on a UK construction/engerneering project whilst living in the UK do not pay income tax and NI? Surley that would be tax evasion?

We do have issues in the UK with Employmnet I have moved from an area where unemployment remained constant despite a massive influx of polish, Slovak and Czech workers. They all took jobs that the local population thought were beneath them. There were some frictions caused by buliding companies offering the immigrant workeres a lower rate and employing them in favour of the higher priced uk workers, This gave the BNP a good foothold and they won many seats in the local elections (stoke on trent) this however was made worse by a totaaly usless and corrupt labour council who had been wasitng money and slowly destroying the town itself.

I think it is unethical to employ workers at a lower rate because they are foreign nationals but perhaps we have been paying some trades too much to support the over inflated house prices and wages need to come down a little?

The OP does seem to indicate that this is beeing made into a racial issue and I am sure the BNP and the likes will try to use this to win votes, I worry for the future with racist bully boys winning voted from those to thick to see the fault is not the immigrant workers but the contiued falure of tory and NL govts to get the country on a sound financial footing. GB is a major architect of the so named credit crunch along with the good old usa who both ran a borrrow now pay later policy giving the poeple the example to borrow borrow borrow to get everthing they want thus giving us the mess we now have.

I was worried that the problem was in Iytaly with immigrant workers as I hope to be one late this year or early next! lets hope they have a more reasonable approach to worker migration. I am so glad I left the midlands!

 

[In Bloom]

Do you think other countries are going to be thinking along the same lines as you are?

Countries don't think at all, nor are they unified entities with a common set of interests. "UK first" is a stupid and divisive idea that completely misses the point. Do you think I give a shit where tax revenue or profit margins go? I never see any of it.

Once again, why should UK nationals take precedence over foreign workers?

 

[chilango]

If its any consolation to some of you I have a job in Italy and pay tax in the UK.

 

[Dissident Junk]

is it really true that workers employed to work in the UK on a UK construction/engerneering project whilst living in the UK do not pay income tax and NI? Surley that would be tax evasion?

I know that, for short projects, you could class yourself as non-dom, but that's probably changed now.

Countries don't think at all, nor are they unified entities with a common set of interests. "UK first" is a stupid and divisive idea that completely misses the point. Do you think I give a shit where tax revenue or profit margins go? I never see any of it.

Errrr.... you live in the UK, yes?

If so, I suspect you certainly will start to give a shit where tax revenues go when public spending has to be slashed due to the recession and a sharp decrease in tax receipts: when rubbish starts piling up in the streets, schools have to close one day a week, NHS budgets are slashed and you cannot get an appointment with your doctor, government has to cut welfare payments, crime goes through the roof, social services contract massively and there is no public money to repair infrastructure so it gets sold off to foreign corporations who milk you blind.

And you then lose your job.

The problem with the "no borders" argument is that we are politically still a nation state in terms of representation, tax and spend, but we are now a global market state in terms of finance, labour and the economy. The two states are infinately connected, but they don't sit together particularly well at the moment.

If you wanted a full "no borders" across Europe, then the best thing to do would be to go wholesale into a European republic, and dissolve the national sovereignty of the British state, so our position within the EU would be then akin to say Oregon's position within the US -- ie we would become part of a United States of Europe.

 

[TomPaine]

Why should UK nationals take precedence over workers from other countries? There's a word for policies like that, and not one that you'd like, I suspect.

Oh for fucks sake, you realise it is attitudes like this which are boosting the BNPs support base? You are a prime example of why the broad Left is in many cases useless in this country. You are out of touch with peoples feelings on the situation, and seem arrogant to boot! Go on call him a "wacist" because he disagrees with you.....

Once again, why should UK nationals take precedence over foreign workers?

Depends whether you mean foreign nationals who reside here already, foreign workers taking on jobs paid at a decent rate comparable to others.... or vunerable workers shipped in from over seas like cattle to meet some fuckers bottom line. As for why the UK nationals or more importantly the LOCAL COMMUNITY should take precendent, maybe because this is their home, it is where their families are and their life is. Who paid for the infastructure out of their taxes which the company benefits from?
Why should communities have unemployment forced on them by companies importing foreign workers and paying them less then the local community?
Why should job prospects vanish and the younger members of the community be forced out to London etc. to find work?
The joys of globalization.
Why don't you catch the train over to Lincolnshire and go ask the people what they think eh? Ask them why they should be unemployed and their community should go down the pan so some cunts can make a fast buck. Because that is exactly what will happen as the economy gets worst and people get thrown on the scrap heap.
This will also encourage the BNP and other shits to move into the area and turn it into a racial issue, and whilst hand wringers quibble over the language some shop steward used the BNP really will be spouting racist shit, playing up divisions and risk turning to situation into another 2001.

 

[tbaldwin]

Why should UK nationals take precedence over workers from other countries? There's a word for policies like that, and not one that you'd like, I suspect.

INTERNATIONALISM.

As opposed to Liberal ideas that people should be free to move whereever the work is.....We should be looking at redistibuting wealth not people across continents and borders.

Support for free market policies on migration just make the world a far more unequal place.
Its sad that somebody like you inbloom who obviously wants a fairer world so badly misunderstands the issue of economic migration.

 

[Fuchs66]

The Jobs should be filled by Uk workers if possible .If foreign labour is needed
it should be because uk cant fill the post and not as an excuse to save money.

That would be the case if they were being employed by a British company, they aren't! If you read the article an Italian company won a contract in what is after all a European market and brought over their own people, which they are perfectly entitled to. The workers will be paying income tax on their earnings, probably (depending on the length of the job) in Italy as is their right in the EU. TBH it looks like the unions are jumping on the xenophobic, lets blame the foreigners band wagon, a very nasty development IMO.

 

[Fuchs66]

Its sad that somebody like you inbloom who obviously wants a fairer world so badly misunderstands the issue of economic migration.

but this isn't economic migration, read my previous post.

 

[elbows]

This is another important front in the battle to save the globalisation project.

Protectionism comes in many forms, things could unravel very quickly.

I have rather mixed feelings about all of this stuff. When we see the baby thrown out with the bath water, people may come to understand the upside of globalisation, once its gone. The downside has always been easy to spot, the economic woetime will simply magnify it.

 

[TomPaine]

That would be the case if they were being employed by a British company, they aren't! If you read the article an Italian company won a contract in what is after all a European market and brought over their own people, which they are perfectly entitled to. The workers will be paying income tax on their earnings, probably (depending on the length of the job) in Italy as is their right in the EU.

Which is why the EU is a shitty mess. Companies should pay all tax to the county/city they are based in my opinion i.e. to the local community. Otherwise they benefit from the infastructure and services and pay nothing towards it.

 

[GoneCoastal]

Companies should pay all tax to the county/city they are based in my opinion i.e. to the local community.

iirc, that's why multinationals etc have UK ltd companies here registered at Companies House, with UK based directors - so that they can pay staff, raise invoices, pay VAT etc in the UK

I'm reasonably (but not 100% certain) sure that if a business is raising invoices here it has to have a UK presence of some sort for VAT purposes at least

 

[snadge]

Which is why the EU is a shitty mess. Companies should pay all tax to the county/city they are based in my opinion i.e. to the local community. Otherwise they benefit from the infastructure and services and pay nothing towards it.

Far too complex.

In the construction industry we are the only country that will allow foreign and UK based companies to pay migrant workers lower rates that previously agreed for that skill, I warned of this a few years ago, now the financial incentives are there for the taking with the strong euro, the government have made it so.

The UK is the laughing stock of Europe.

Every other EU country has leglisation in place so companies HAVE to pay the agreed rates.

 

[Fuchs66]

Which is why the EU is a shitty mess. Companies should pay all tax to the county/city they are based in my opinion i.e. to the local community. Otherwise they benefit from the infastructure and services and pay nothing towards it.

Which is what they do, this is an Italian company BASED in Italy and paying taxes there, working on a contract in the UK, what's the problem?

E2A the EU may have its problems but it aint so bad.

 

[Fuchs66]

I'm reasonably (but not 100% certain) sure that if a business is raising invoices here it has to have a UK presence of some sort for VAT purposes at least

I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case for companies based in other EU countries although some German companies have become UK Ltd as it's less complicated and a hell of a lot cheaper than being a GmbH.

 

[treelover]

Apparently it is spreading across Teeside and other 'elements' are sticking their oar in. From what i gather many people not connected to the plant are getting involved, young guys, particularly. Its looks like this is is a lightning rod for globalisation and its discontents, but this time its workers, not students, etc . One has to be concerned how this pans out, but cries of racist or xenophobe won't be productive, nor will ignoring it as seem to be happening on the Left blogosphere, etc,

 

[TomPaine]

Which is what they do, this is an Italian company BASED in Italy and paying taxes there, working on a contract in the UK, what's the problem?

Yes an Italian based company working in the UK, using UK infastructure and importing staff at a lower rate to work in the UK, paying all taxes back to Italy (unless I have missed something with regards to paying UK tax). You can't see the problem with that? You can't see how things like this have a negative impact on local communities?

How about those in the financial sector who are residents of Monaco, earn obscene salaries in the UK and ferry the money out to tax havens?

How about a UK company working in Africa importing British workers to work on the oil fields, and then exporting profit and tax back to the UK?

 

[TomPaine]

Apparently it is spreading across Teeside and other 'elements' are sticking their oar in. From what i gather many people not connected to the plant are getting involved, young guys, particularly. Its looks like this is is a lightning rod for globalisation and its discontents, but this time its workers, not students, etc . One has to be concerned how this pans out, but cries of racist or xenophobe won't be productive, nor will ignoring it as seem to be happening on the Left blogosphere, etc,

This ^

Now that picture of the Italian chap fliping off the camera has been spread over the front pages of newspaper and the Beeb, it is only going to inflame the situation. Watch the far right try and capatalise on this, whilst hand wringers call the workers racist/xenophobes, then watch the situation esculate.

 

[Mr Smin]

correct.

But the employers don't have to pay the correct rate if they put the overseas workers up in billets, the reduction in rate can be used as a board payment, some polish lads I was working with had £5 an hour deducted for this, his food and lodgings were provided for an exorbitant rate, this is perfectly legal.

He had an hourly deduction for a fixed service? The more hours he worked, the more he paid for food and lodgings? Might be legal but it's still a scam.

 

[treelover]

Now that picture of the Italian chap fliping off the camera has been spread over the front pages of newspaper and the Beeb, it is only going to inflame the situation

yes, i fear so, one guy and they tar all the Italian workers, the picture will become a symbolic one, its going to get nasty.


btw, its spread a bit more, unofficial strike action was also taken by workers at Scottish Power’s Longannet power station in Fife.

 

[Stoat Boy]

It must be annoying to be part of the modern British left.

You bemoan the lack of unity amongst the working classes and then when they do show some of it, well its all a bit awkward.

LOL.

 

[Bun]

You mean life isn't like a socialist worker editorial!

 

[Stoat Boy]

You mean life isn't like a socialist worker editorial!

Can you imagine them trying to work out who to support and what to print on the banners ?

 

[cantsin]

I wish someone else had posted this, not sure why they haven't, but it needs discussing: hundreds of workers have walked out after the company Total, through a contractor, Jacobs, employed over 90 Italian workers for a project at their Lindsey refinery in North Lincolnshire. There have been very angry mass protests with banners from Unison and others spotted, and more planned. Workers at the plant say they have 'marvelled' at the 'solidarity' of those who have walked out, with the unemployed, etc. It is escalating as hundreds of workers at the neighbouring Conoco Phillips refinery joined them outside the gates of Lindsey Oil Refinery on Thursday. There have also been reports of wildcat action at other sites, including the Dimlington and Easington gas terminals in East Yorkshire

On a day, when there are mass labour movement, etc, strikes in France , this can't be the best way to display anger with the Gov't,etc, yet i suspect here in the UK , we will see more of it, as frustrations manifest themselves in various and not always palatable ways. The is clearly anger growing in the country about the recession/slump, etc, the unions must harness this anger into identifying the real culprit, NL and their obssession with globalisation and surely the left should examine its priorities at this time.

yeah , lets all hope "the unions harness this anger " eh...then dissipate it in time honoured fashion = job done .

 

[derf]

The rights and wrongs I'll leave for others to debate but I did know of two factories in my old area that dumped all their local staff over as short a time as possible in favour of agency workers.
These workers were all foreigners employed day to day.
My understanding of the situation was that the factory paid minimum wage + a small commission to the employment company but there was no sick leave, holiday pay and so on to consider so they came out sweet on the deal.
The practical upshot was that all the local workers were dumped and the new people were all asylum seekers and assorted east Europeans.
The factory management didn't care about the legality of the workers as that was down to the agent and the factory had full denial. Not that any bugger seemed to be checking anyway.

As I said I'll leave the debate to others but that's what was happening there and there is a fair chance it's the same thing in this case.

 

[Bun]

Can you imagine them trying to work out who to support and what to print on the banners ?



Down with your false consciousness! Fight for the right to be unemployed!

 

[snadge]

He had an hourly deduction for a fixed service? The more hours he worked, the more he paid for food and lodgings? Might be legal but it's still a scam.

Of course it's a scam, a legal one that only seems to be allowed in the UK.

The foreign workers are contracted to work a certain amount of hours, overtime payment doesn't come into it, Companies buy houses in the local towns and pile 5/6 into a house, they make a profit on the accommodation as well, alongside a tidy profit when the property is sold.


This is happening all over the country.

 

[nightbreed]

Power plant staff stage walk-out
Longannet Power Station
Hundreds of contractors at Longannet Power Station have walked out

Hundreds of workers at a Fife power station have staged an unofficial
walk-out in support of workers in England protesting over use of
foreign labour.

The contract workers based at Longannet Power Station walked off shift
after a meeting on Thursday.

They are supporting contract workers in England who say that other
companies are using Spanish and Italian staff ahead of UK-based staff.

Workers at Grangemouth remain at work but are to attend a meeting on
Friday.

A Scottish Power spokeswoman said: "Scottish Power can confirm that
contractors working at Longannet Power Station in Fife have taken part
in unofficial industrial action which is part of a UK-wide campaign
concerning the issue of foreign workers.

"Scottish Power employees are not taking part in the campaign and
production of power supplies are not affected in the short-term."

A worker, who wished to remain anonymous told BBC Scotland: "We're
very happy working with foreign workers, we just want to know they
have exhausted the British workforce first."
"We think it is the thin end of the wedge to use foreign workers.

"We're worried about unemployment, there's a recession on at the
moment and there are plenty of skilled workers in Britain, unemployed,
to cope with any work we're going to get.

"It's about the right to work"

This was emailed to me from a Left Yahoo mailing list without a source. Im assuming its from the BBC but cant find it. The important bit I have underlined.I remember hearing similar coments from workers at the shutdown at Fawley in 2006.

 

[treelover]

'Derek Simpson, joint leader of Unite, warned: "The Government must take urgent action to deal with this situation as tensions are reaching boiling point."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...tracts-For-Foreigners/Article/200901415213359


Its gone global, all over the net, i wonder if certain groups will start making comparisons with the Dockers walkout, etc in support of Enoch.


wonder what would happen if the SWP paper sellers turned up!

 

[frogwoman]

Surely the point is the rates they are being paid at.

If they are being paid under rates, British workers are entirely right to strike, though the slogans used have to be chosen carefully.

If they're being paid the same and in all respects are treated exactly the same, it's a case of xenophobic protectionism and unjustified.

This.