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Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

Yeah, it's a tricky one. Sweden is still investigating why the bad news from that festival the summer before last was kept quiet.
"Referring to the cover-up allegations, Peter Agren, who was in charge of policing at the festival, was reported by Dagens Nyheter as saying: “This is a sore point. We sometimes dare not to say how it is because we think it might play into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”
I'm sure you can relate.
 
No, it's hysterical xenophobic cunts like you, doing the far-right and the Daily Mail's bidding like the useful idiots that you are, accepting the line that it's all about fucking foreigners even when, as in this most recent story, it clearly isn't.

And if anyone points out how you're being a hysterical xenophobic cunt, you return to your whining about left wing cover ups and how there's a conspiracy to have you banned from posting here.



So ..to get this crystal..you are now stating that because of something else that happened months later ,somewhere else ,Sweden.. that hundreds of migrants didn't rape hundreds of women across Germany on new years eve ?

And..it's get better...anyone who thinks those mass attacks on new years did actually happen is a racist ?

This is so bizarre a line of reasoning it's actually profoundly disturbing to read . It's like Alex Jones in reverse . Just like that shit article .​
 

So ..to get this crystal..you are now stating that because of something else that happened months later ,somewhere else ,Sweden.. that hundreds of migrants didn't rape hundreds of women across Germany on new years eve ?

And..it's get better...anyone who thinks those mass attacks on new years did actually happen is a racist ?

This is so bizarre a line of reasoning it's actually profoundly disturbing to read . It's like Alex Jones in reverse . Just like that shit article .​

I have absolutely no idea how you get from what I said to what you seem to think I've said.

You often come across as a paranoid fantasist, but this makes no sense whatever and bears no relation to anything I've said. Incoherent delusional nonsense, even for you.
 
I thought this was a good article here by Zizek . Who thankfully doesn't insult our intelligence..or indeed our humanity..by peddling the " it just didn't happen...media conspiracy " bullshit . Or make inane comparisons with arty farty dinner parties .

He makes a number of the same points I've made..although a hell of lot better naturally. Namely that these mass assaults ..that actually happened...are themselves a form of fascism and organised hatred . That this fascism is an inevitable by product of massimmigration into a capitalist and imperialist society, that the western left are intellectually and emotionally incapable of formulating a response to them due..in part.. to were the perpetrators originate from. And that the response of the authorities in pointing out to migrants this behaviour is wrong is utterly fucking inane. Because the perpetrators already know that, and the reason they are doing it in the first place is precisely because it's wrong . That it's a deliberate attack on the society they've come to .

The article deals mostly with the Paris attacks at the beginning but it concentrates on Cologne afterwards . Cat lovers might find it a bit " triggering " mind .

Slavoj Žižek: The Cologne attacks were an obscene version of carnival
 
I have absolutely no idea how you get from what I said to what you seem to think I've said.

You often come across as a paranoid fantasist, but this makes no sense whatever and bears no relation to anything I've said. Incoherent delusional nonsense, even for you.


A paranoid fantasist...just like those hundreds of women .

You've absolutely no idea how I got that from your post..just like you've absolutely no idea how anyone could arrive at the conclusion from that article that the cologne mass sexual assaults were just media hype and police conspiracy .

I'm seeing a pattern here, but I'm quite sure you'll have no idea how anyone could see that either .
 
interesting, yep. But he misses out the crucial ending to the cats story!
"Finally, the printer ordered the cats rounded up and dispatched. The apprentices did this, rounded up all the cats they could find, beat them half to death and held a 'trial'. They found the cats guilty of witchcraft and sentenced them to death by hanging.":(
The Great Cat Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Yeah, it's a shame more Germans aren't reading the world socialist website, isn't it. Bernie Gunther do you think NYE in cologne is a bit like the story of foreigners eating goats at a zoo or being given free bordello passes? If you don't think so, why are you posting those stories here?
 
Seems to me the apparent popularity of an explicitly anti-refugee party, and the rise in anti-refugee/foreigner sentiment generally is undeniably linked to the explicit far-right propaganda and to the more mainstream anti-foreigner moral panic which many here, including you, have been so eager to encourage.
Just to be clear, Andy, can you just summarise your position on what you think happened in Cologne and who is to blame for it? I've lost track amidst all the shit flinging that's been going on and am only skim reading this thread now (probably like many others as there are only about 5 or 6 people posting).
 
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Just to be clear, Andy, can you just summarise your position on what you think happened in Cologne and who is to blame for it? I've lost track amidst all the shit flinging that's been going on and am only skim reading this thread now (probably like many others as there are only about 5 or 6 people posting).

OK, give me a while to sort some other stuff out, and I'll return to this with the proper response it deserves
 
I'm posting about demonstrably false racist propaganda and asociated conspiracy theories because that's part of the context of this story.

Given that such propaganda is demonstrably occuring, it's entirely legitimate to ask for any given account in this context how sound the evidence for it appears to be and whether its strong enough to form conclusions one way or another.
 
Over at wsws, they know whats what. there were no actual crimes committed that night, only "crimes", made up and spread by racists who should be locked up. :facepalm:

Screen Shot 2016-03-14 at 09.42.09.png ,

(all comments there have to pass moderation, mine didn't make the grade, obviously)
 
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Just to be clear, Andy, can you just summarise your position on what you think happened in Cologne and who is to blame for it? I've lost track amidst all the shit flinging that's been going on and am only skim reading this thread now (probably like many others as there are only about 5 or 6 people posting).

OK, lets give this a go...

I want to qualify this right from the beginning by saying this is what I think from the information I have available (largely from this thread and the mainstream media), and I don't think anyone knew two months ago, knows now or will ever know exactly and completely what happened, so the following comes with that caveat attached.

It appears that large numbers of sexual assaults, other assaults and robberies were committed in the crowds around Cologne station, that some were reported to the police at the time, some were possibly witnessed by members of the police at the time, and many of them were committed by people who the victims described as being of foreign appearance. None of that's in dispute, certainly by me. I believe what the victims are saying, including what they say about the people committing the attacks, and I've never said otherwise.

But as the story developed and unfolded, things quickly get muddied and established facts got confused with supposed facts and supposed explanations for those established and supposed facts. There's nothing new or unusual about that, it happens with most news stories.

One thing is that it appears that police were slow to realise the scale of what was happening, which may or may not be understandable given the logistics of the situation as it unfolded on the night, I don't know. It also appears that the police may have been slow to release info to the German media, and that the media may have been slow in reporting the story, which may also be understandable given the confusion and the new-year-and-after holiday.

It's been suggested, right from the beginning, that these delays in responding and reporting were the result of deliberate suppression (motivated by leftie-inspired political correctness, obvs...) I'm utterly skeptical about this, TBH, because I don't think that's how either the police or the MSM work, and because it's an all-too-convenient trope for leftie bashers here and elsewhere to jump on, but jump on it they did, to the extent that it quickly became accepted fact to many, even though there are other equally or more likely explanations which were generally ignored or dismissed out of hand.

It also appears that as time went on and the story unfolded, more victims reported being attacked. There's nothing surprising or suspicious about this, many people who've been assaulted don't report it immediately, for all sorts of reasons, and it's possible that some victims only reported what had happened to them when they realised that it was part of a larger thing that was reported in the media, and that they might otherwise not have reported it, if that makes sense. This doesn't mean, as has been suggested on this thread, that those who mention that some of the victims have only come forward after media reports are in any way doubting what those those victims have said.

As far as the "foreigner" aspect of the story goes, I believe the descriptions given by the victims, and I accept that many/most/even all of the attackers may have appeared to be foreigners, or may have possessed asylum seeker papers (they may even have been foreigners or asylum seekers, though one doesn't follow the other automatically), I'm not seeking to deny or even downplay that.

What I am objecting to is focussing on that aspect (by sections of the media, by far-right opportunists and by the usual leftie-bashers on this thread) to push that as the dominant part of this story, and to whip up a moral panic on the back of it about western women being under threat from sexual-aggressive foreigners, because that's one of the oldest and most well-worn rightwing tropes going, and it's sickening to see it wheeled out yet again.

I hope that answers your question to some extent, though there's probably bits I've missed out, other things I could have said, etc.
 
Over at wsws, they know whats what. there were no actual crimes committed that night, only "crimes", made up and spread by racists who should be locked up. :facepalm:

View attachment 84659 ,

(all comments there have to pass moderation, mine didn't make the grade, obviously)

One comment by some silly twat on the rather grandiosely named but actually pretty obscure WSWS is just one comment by some silly twat on the rather grandiosely named but actually pretty obscure WSWS, I'm afraid, not evidence of anything more, and certainly not any reflection of the views of anyone posting on this thread
 
Yeah, even assuming it's a genuine comment. Smells like a troll. Calling for the arrest of journalists who report minority crimes sounds like some right-winger's fantasy of what those 'socialists' want to do.
 
Yeah, even assuming it's a genuine comment. Smells like a troll. Calling for the arrest of journalists who report minority crimes sounds like some right-winger's fantasy of what those 'socialists' want to do.

Now that you mention it, it does sound rather like the sort of projected nonsense that a certain poster here likes to attribute to "degenerate lefties"... :hmm:
 
OK, lets give this a go...

I want to qualify this right from the beginning by saying this is what I think from the information I have available (largely from this thread and the mainstream media), and I don't think anyone knew two months ago, knows now or will ever know exactly and completely what happened, so the following comes with that caveat attached.

It appears that large numbers of sexual assaults, other assaults and robberies were committed in the crowds around Cologne station, that some were reported to the police at the time, some were possibly witnessed by members of the police at the time, and many of them were committed by people who the victims described as being of foreign appearance. None of that's in dispute, certainly by me. I believe what the victims are saying, including what they say about the people committing the attacks, and I've never said otherwise.

But as the story developed and unfolded, things quickly get muddied and established facts got confused with supposed facts and supposed explanations for those established and supposed facts. There's nothing new or unusual about that, it happens with most news stories.

One thing is that it appears that police were slow to realise the scale of what was happening, which may or may not be understandable given the logistics of the situation as it unfolded on the night, I don't know. It also appears that the police may have been slow to release info to the German media, and that the media may have been slow in reporting the story, which may also be understandable given the confusion and the new-year-and-after holiday.

It's been suggested, right from the beginning, that these delays in responding and reporting were the result of deliberate suppression (motivated by leftie-inspired political correctness, obvs...) I'm utterly skeptical about this, TBH, because I don't think that's how either the police or the MSM work, and because it's an all-too-convenient trope for leftie bashers here and elsewhere to jump on, but jump on it they did, to the extent that it quickly became accepted fact to many, even though there are other equally or more likely explanations which were generally ignored or dismissed out of hand.

It also appears that as time went on and the story unfolded, more victims reported being attacked. There's nothing surprising or suspicious about this, many people who've been assaulted don't report it immediately, for all sorts of reasons, and it's possible that some victims only reported what had happened to them when they realised that it was part of a larger thing that was reported in the media, and that they might otherwise not have reported it, if that makes sense. This doesn't mean, as has been suggested on this thread, that those who mention that some of the victims have only come forward after media reports are in any way doubting what those those victims have said.

As far as the "foreigner" aspect of the story goes, I believe the descriptions given by the victims, and I accept that many/most/even all of the attackers may have appeared to be foreigners, or may have possessed asylum seeker papers (they may even have been foreigners or asylum seekers, though one doesn't follow the other automatically), I'm not seeking to deny or even downplay that.

What I am objecting to is focussing on that aspect (by sections of the media, by far-right opportunists and by the usual leftie-bashers on this thread) to push that as the dominant part of this story, and to whip up a moral panic on the back of it about western women being under threat from sexual-aggressive foreigners, because that's one of the oldest and most well-worn rightwing tropes going, and it's sickening to see it wheeled out yet again.

I hope that answers your question to some extent, though there's probably bits I've missed out, other things I could have said, etc.
well it is a pretty dominant part of the story. if a massive group of lads from crawley went to say spain and committed sexual assualt on local women on a large and fairly organised scale, i'm pretty sure the fact that they were nto local, that they were from England, and doing it in a mass group, would be a pretty dominant part of the story.
 
well it is a pretty dominant part of the story. if a massive group of lads from crawley went to say spain and committed sexual assualt on local women on a large and fairly organised scale, i'm pretty sure the fact that they were nto local, that they were from England, and doing it in a mass group, would be a pretty dominant part of the story.

It's an important part of the story, but I question how accurate a parallel you're drawing with your "lads from Crawley" example.

Is there any actual evidence that everyone involved was previously known to each other, had travelled there deliberately with the intention of committing assaults, were doing it in a mass group in an organised way, etc.

Even if all of that is true of this particular group of (it appears) mainly North Africans, does that justify pushing the "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators" to the extent it's been pushed, right from the beginning and before even the most basic facts had been fully established?
 
Even if all of that is true of this particular group of (it appears) mainly North Africans, does that justify pushing the "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators" to the extent it's been pushed, right from the beginning and before even the most basic facts had been fully established?
Err.. Is that supposed to be me? If that's what you think I've been saying you have completely lost the plot.
 
Err.. Is that supposed to be me? If that's what you think I've been saying you have completely lost the plot.

Where I have I said it's you, you twat?

If I want to accuse you specifically of saying something, I won't be shy about doing so, believe me.

Why are you repeatedly making it all about you, then complaining that other people are making it all about you?

Have you got anything of substance to say in response to my post outlining my position, correcting the nonsense version that you and others have presented, or are you simply going to continue your whining and misrepresentation?
 
Why are you repeatedly making it all about you, then complaining that other people are making it all about you?
Well given that most of the personal stuff has been directed at her it's unsurprising that she may wonder if this is too, and to be fair, I'm pretty certain that nobody on this thread has ever said that "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators".

Someone less charitable may well accuse you of lying there. ;)
 
Thanks spy.
ok. So you're not suggesting that anybody on this thread has been "pushing the "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators" . Good, cos that would just be mental.
 
Well given that most of the personal stuff has been directed at her it's unsurprising that she may wonder if this is too, and to be fair, I'm pretty certain that nobody on this thread has ever said that "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators".

Someone less charitable may well accuse you of lying there. ;)

That's nonsense - she's the one who has, just as one example off the top of my head, accused people of being rape-deniers along the lines of the SWP, an accusation which, given who it was aimed at and their position here over years and years, is more ridiculous than offensive.

And what I've actually said is that various people, in the mainstream media, from far-right backgrounds and here have used a particular right wing trope which I've summarised as "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators" - that isn't supposed to be a direct quote from anyone, on this thread or elsewhere, so the idea that I'm attributing it to bimble is fucking nonsense, and just demonstrates once again how careless she is in reading and how quick she is to jump to the wrong conclusions.

So have you got any comment to make on my answer to you above, or is it straight back to shit slinging as normal?
 
Where I have I said it's you, you twat?

If I want to accuse you specifically of saying something, I won't be shy about doing so, believe me.

Why are you repeatedly making it all about you, then complaining that other people are making it all about you?

Have you got anything of substance to say in response to my post outlining my position, correcting the nonsense version that you and others have presented, or are you simply going to continue your whining and misrepresentation?

Why are you taking this tone to a woman on a thread about women being raped?
 
That's nonsense - she's the one who has, just as one example off the top of my head, accused people of being rape-deniers along the lines of the SWP, an accusation which, given who it was aimed at and their position here over years and years, is more ridiculous than offensive.
I can't be arsed this evening, really, but I call that piece in that website rape denial, yes, unequivocally. The reason butchers got asked his opinion on that piece about 13 times was, as i said, because I felt that his opinion on it would mean something. But he declined to comment on it in any way. That's his choice of course. I never called him a rape denier, I just asked if he had an opinion on that piece of writing. Anyway, might be back to give you an in depth response to your bit above later but to be honest am not very interested, and after all the things you've called me why would you give a shit what i think.
 
And what I've actually said is that various people, in the mainstream media, from far-right backgrounds and here have used a particular right wing trope which I've summarised as "all foreigners are rapists and sexual predators" - that isn't supposed to be a direct quote from anyone, on this thread or elsewhere, so the idea that I'm attributing it to bimble is fucking nonsense, and just demonstrates once again how careless she is in reading and how quick she is to jump to the wrong conclusions.
Well if you're not intending to quote directly you really shouldn't use " " quotation marks. They signify that you are indeed attributing the words to someone specifically, so it's easy to see how the confusion has arisen from your carelessness.
So have you got any comment to make on my answer to you above, or is it straight back to shit slinging as normal?
It's a good post which I broadly agree with and will comment on later.
 
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