Coup plot thwarted in germany 7.12.22

[A380]

Very disappointed that these people are wearing tweed jackets in the city. How gauche.

Probably the type to wear brown shoes in town too.

ETA beaten to it by just about everyone…

 

[A380]

I'm afraid to say that my experience of both government, and supra-national organisations, is that 'Plan B' tends to be in short supply. Oddly most very senior politician/CS are fully aware that shit can go south, but they simply don't give much serious thought to what to do about it when it does.

Its somewhere between arrogance, incompetence, and believing that the more effort you put into planning for shit times, the more likely you are to need to use that planning.

I'd bet that somewhere in the EU there's two sheets of typed A4 giving 'the plan' incase a member state has a genuine, serious coup that succeeds - but that upon reading it, you'd see it would be full of holes and of absolutely no use to anyone.

Two pages? That’s the in depth versions of most plans for the big National Risk Register stuff. In large font and double spaced…

 

[otzenpunk]

For non-German speakers interested in the subject matter I'd like to drop this link for further details:

And here's an extended version with much more background by the same author:

Just Like January 6, One of the Most Disturbing Aspects of the Right-Wing Coup Attempt in Germany is Who Was Behind It

The US has had to deal with a home-grown attempted coup for the past two years. This week, Germans awoke to headlines that gave them a taste of what their American friends felt on January 6, 2021 as Germany saw its largest anti-terrorism operation carried out by police in recent history. Three thous

religiondispatches.org

What’s the fucking matter with Germany? Already had genuine fash with death camps and it remains popular to a frightening degree.

Well, at first, it's not the Germans at large. It's clearly a small minority, as is shown for example by the election turnouts for the far-right AfD, which polls somewhere around 12%.

BUT there are certainly parts of our society, where right-wing extremism is much more prevalent as in society as a whole. First there is Eastern Germany. People tend to argue about the reasons, whether it's because former GDR citizens "haven't properly learned democracy", or because they're are mad about allegedly being disadvantaged during the process of reunification, or maybe because they're historically closer to Russia than to Western societies. But with the AfD polling strongest of all the parties in several eastern states it's obvious that the East has a Nazi problem, and the conservative Christian Democrats there are of no help either, but to the contrary do have large intern support for cooperation with the far-right, but currently are still being restrained from officially doing so by their federal leadership. On the other hand, on a map Eastern Germany looks like quite a large portion of the country, but in fact all eastern states together, even if you include Berlin, inhabit a smaller population than Northrhine-Westphalia alone.

The second problematic subdivision of German society are the security forces. While it's probably not uncommon everywhere, that jobs in the military or police force attract right-wing-minded persons more than lefties, German history lead to an even more pacifist basic adjustment in wide shares of the center to left political spectrum. While in the US for example the forces seem to be much more diverse, including many BPoC using the service to gain societal advance, in Germany it's pretty save to say, that the whole variety of political believes in the police or military basically starts somewhere at the center and reaches far to the right and therefore doesn't reflect society at all, because it misses out about half the political spectrum. That is going to be a problem in the future, when violence further escalates, because our harsh gun laws basically lead to only the right having access to weapons.

And third, we have conservatives and libertarians, that officially reject right-wing-extremism, but tend to diminish it and concentrate on their fight against climate activists, antifascists et. al., because in their perception these are the people that threaten their privileges more than armed fascist insurgents, but I guess that's not very special to Germany.

 

[A380]

I think the UK is different in its response to Nazi ism than many other countries. Not because many British people don’t hold extreme right views. See the BNP, NF, EDL or indeed the Daily Mail. Nor that we are inherently decent and find expansionist violence anathema. See, The British Empire 1550 to well, now a bit.

But I think the whole tailored uniforms, weird salutes torch light parades and all the trimmings just wouldn’t work here as most just wouldn’t take them seriously…

A British far right regime would probably resemble a cross between an Allied Carpets store and Labour Exchange both from the 1970s. With added concentration camps. (Which we didn’t actually event, but did name)….

 

[Rob Ray]

Plus Britain more than probably any other country defines itself by its opposition to fascism in WWII. It marks the entire modern self perception of the nation, bookends Empire with a good deed etc.

Though it's a double-edged sword, as "Britain can't be fascist, beacon of freedom waffle waffle" is a major underlying cause of right-wingers scoffing/handwaving about the authoritarian aspects of eg. repression of the right to protest, or anti-strike legislation. As long as they're vocally repudiating the name of fascism the British right will quite often be cheerfully in favour of its particulars.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Plus Britain more than probably any other country defines itself by its opposition to fascism in WWII

Hold my beer

 

[Rob Ray]

Hold my beer

View attachment 355063

Hah, fair point (and of course identical tactic of "we can't be fascist, we fought the Nazis" -- bombs civilian infrastructure as part of hyper-nationalist land grab against a population it defines as sub human)

 

[frogwoman]

Russian nationalism is pretty similar to British in many respects tbh

 

[Sue]

To be fair to the plotters, looks like the grub would've been decent (an army marching on its stomach and all).

'Frank Heppner, a star cook from Munich, who was arrested on Wednesday at a five-star hotel in the Austrian ski resort of Kitzbühel where he worked, was allegedly a member of the command staff of the military arm of the terrorist group, responsible for recruiting new members, obtaining weapons and other equipment, as well as building a bug-proof communication and IT structure. He was also tasked with running the canteen that would have provided meals for the members of the so-called “New German Army”.'

Celebrity chef among suspects in Germany rightwing coup plot

Ex-police officer once tasked with protecting Jewish communities also linked to foiled Reichsbürger plan

www.theguardian.com

 

[spitfire]

To be fair to the plotters, looks like the grub would've been decent (an army marching on its stomach and all).

'Frank Heppner, a star cook from Munich, who was arrested on Wednesday at a five-star hotel in the Austrian ski resort of Kitzbühel where he worked, was allegedly a member of the command staff of the military arm of the terrorist group, responsible for recruiting new members, obtaining weapons and other equipment, as well as building a bug-proof communication and IT structure. He was also tasked with running the canteen that would have provided meals for the members of the so-called “New German Army”.'

Celebrity chef among suspects in Germany rightwing coup plot

Ex-police officer once tasked with protecting Jewish communities also linked to foiled Reichsbürger plan

www.theguardian.com

Haha no way.

Had a quick look. Not very völkisch. Needs more schwein. I reckon he'd have been liquidated before too long with all this foreign muck.

 

[Sue]

Haha no way.

Had a quick look. Not very völkisch. Needs more schwein. I reckon he'd have been liquidated before too long with all this foreign muck.

As long as there were veggie/vegan options...

 

[klang]

Haha no way.

Had a quick look. Not very völkisch. Needs more schwein. I reckon he'd have been liquidated before too long with all this foreign muck.

View attachment 355069

Easy struggle, his: by doing nothing you'll end up in the 2nd Reich - 'If you stand still you go backwards'

 

[spitfire]

Mein Stand.

(sorry for bad german)

 

[Sasaferrato]

Would have been funnier if they’d been left to attempt it rather than getting their collar felt whilst still in the planning stage.

Except that some poor bastard might have been killed by them.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Restauration of the House of Stuart. Coincidentally, the current "King over the Water" is also a German Prince Franz of Bavaria. However, as he spent part of his childhood in Dachau, he would probably not be too sympathetic to a far-Right coup.



Franz, Duke of Bavaria - Wikipedia

Lucky to have survived.

 

[Pickman's model]

Haha no way.

Had a quick look. Not very völkisch. Needs more schwein. I reckon he'd have been liquidated before too long with all this foreign muck.

View attachment 355069

They'll eat well in the prison where he serves his sentence

 

[Sasaferrato]

I get a feeling that there must be more to this. Less than fifty people don't represent a threat to any country in terms of taking over.

Certainly, a bombing campaign or similar would be serious, but again not threat to the state in its present form.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I get a feeling that there must be more to this. Less than fifty people don't represent a threat to any country in terms of taking over.

Certainly, a bombing campaign or similar would be serious, but again not threat to the state in its present form.

You think they shouldn’t have been arrested for plotting an armed coup because there isn’t many of them?

 

[tim]

You think they shouldn’t have been arrested for plotting an armed coup because there isn’t many of them?

If this was just a case of a few dangerous but isolated cranks, they wouldn't be making such a fuss about it. I would imagine that there is more to emerge.

 

[frogwoman]

Maybe because they had support in the security services? There's definitely more to come out

 

[Sasaferrato]

If this was just a case of a few dangerous but isolated cranks, they wouldn't be making such a fuss about it. I would imagine that there is more to emerge.

That is my feeling too.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You think they shouldn’t have been arrested for plotting an armed coup because there isn’t many of them?

 

[ouirdeaux]

It's clearly a small minority, as is shown for example by the election turnouts for the far-right AfD, which polls somewhere around 12%.

Sure, that's a minority. But one in eight people isn't a small one.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sure, that's a minority. But one in eight people isn't a small one.

I was thinking that myself.

 

[Dystopiary]

BBC piece on another group of "Reichsbürgers" (How many are there?!):

The self-proclaimed kingdom that doesn't recognise Germany

The "Königreich Deutschland" (Kingdom of Germany) is a self-proclaimed independent state - complete with its own self-appointed king.

They have their own money, ID cards and flag. Seem to all be anti-vax, "free thinker" types.

[King Peter] felt, he said, that he had no choice but to found his kingdom, having tried, unsuccessfully, to run as a mayor and a member of the German parliament.

Bit drastic. He doesn't recognise post-WW2 Germany.

"I have no interest in being part of this fascist and satanic system," he says.

Mr Fitzek [King Peter] tells us he has about 5,000 citizens. He's expanding the kingdom, buying up land in Germany in order to set up a number of communities in which those people can ultimately live.

 

[Rimbaud]

BBC piece on another group of "Reichsbürgers" (How many are there?!):

The self-proclaimed kingdom that doesn't recognise Germany



They have their own money, ID cards and flag. Seem to all be anti-vax, "free thinker" types.



Bit drastic. He doesn't recognise post-WW2 Germany.

I asked an East German friend of mine about these guys, and he reckoned there are probably only a couple of thousand full on Reichsburgers who believe it 100% and try to refuse paying parking fines etc because they don't recognise the authority of the German Federation, however the number of people who are on the spectrum and share a few similar beliefs are probably in the hundreds of thousands or possibly low millions depending how loosely you define it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Oh is it basically freeman stuff?

 

[Rimbaud]

Oh is it basically freeman stuff?

It's based on a similar fallacy, but it's a little more serious and overlaps a lot with neo-nazism. Basically the idea is Germany never signed a truce after the Second World War so it isn't a legitimate state or something like that.

 

[quiet guy]

To be fair to the plotters, looks like the grub would've been decent (an army marching on its stomach and all).

'Frank Heppner, a star cook from Munich, who was arrested on Wednesday at a five-star hotel in the Austrian ski resort of Kitzbühel where he worked, was allegedly a member of the command staff of the military arm of the terrorist group, responsible for recruiting new members, obtaining weapons and other equipment, as well as building a bug-proof communication and IT structure. He was also tasked with running the canteen that would have provided meals for the members of the so-called “New German Army”.'

Celebrity chef among suspects in Germany rightwing coup plot

Ex-police officer once tasked with protecting Jewish communities also linked to foiled Reichsbürger plan

www.theguardian.com

Think he'd been watching too much Steven Seagal playing Casey Ryback

 

[scalyboy]

That is my feeling too.

Can't recall where I read it a few days ago, but IIRC it was a German security source who was quoted as saying that of the approx. 21,000 Reichsbürgers, Germany's police/intelligence bods estimated that 10% of these had military training, weapons, or access to weapons, and were prepared to use them in furtherance of their aims. I'll see if I can find the quote but if I'm remembering that correct (quite possibly not as my short-term memory is going west), 2,100 is quite a sizeable number of far-right types ready to violently overthrow the state... far more than in the UK I would guess. More like the USA.
My first thought on hearing about this coup attempt was, like you, Sas, and frogwoman too, there's more to this than we are at first being told.
Maybe some of these 2,100 are serving members of Germany's armed forces, police or intelligence? Time will tell - or not