How would you prioritise the vaccine schedule?

[weltweit]

I dunno, if it says on the box 'two doses' then people should be given two doses. I certainly don't trust Hancock to make the call that second doses aren't needed.

A single dose reduces the severity of the disease and single dosed vulnerable people are much less likely to die. So the calculation is that many more single doses will save more lives than fewer double doses.

eta What is more, no-one who got the Oxford vaccine was hospitalised or got seriously ill due to Covid.
Covid: What is the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine? - BBC News

 

[William of Walworth]

I'm a give everyone both doses man, but I'm reassured by what I linked to before, and its most important bit (bolded below -- repeat quote) :

They have advised that the second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may be given between 3 to 12 weeks following the first dose, and that the second dose of the AstraZeneca (Oxford) vaccine may be given between 4 to 12 weeks following the first dose[/B]. The clinical risk priority order for deployment of the vaccines remains unchanged and applies to both vaccines. Both are very effective vaccines.

And I seem to have got this also-reassuring quote from one of several official .gov pages that I've read (can't quite find which particular one now though )

Everyone will still receive their second dose and this will be within 12 weeks of their first. The second dose completes the course and is important for longer term protection.

Yes, I know "don't fucking trust the Govt. " and quite rightly not, but if you read all the nitty-gritty details from my link in the first line of this post, there's a fair bit of really positive stuff in there

 

[8ball]

I've only recently been hearing of this 12 weeks thing.

It concerns me a bit since the tests on the Pfizer vaccine that I'm aware of had a much shorter period between doses.

 

[William of Walworth]

"Oxford United FC, they're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen"

I suspect I've got a bit too much positive-bias about Oxford/Astra/Zeneca for some irrelevant reason

But today's news has encouraged me -- as has related beer-drinking

 

[William of Walworth]

I've only recently been hearing of this 12 weeks thing.

It concerns me a bit since the tests on the Pfizer vaccine that I'm aware of had a much shorter period between doses.

Fair concern, and that could well be a worry, yes

But if you look at some of the detailed figures on safety-levels (for both Pfizer and Oxford) after just the first dose, and then if all second doses are given before or at 12 weeks after, how much difference would that make?

I ask that question without an answer, and in the hope that a passing scientist may have a better idea.

 

[mx wcfc]

"Oxford United FC, they're by fart.....

Sounds like something we'd sing down at Reading.
(we hate Swindon more than you........)

 

[William of Walworth]

Sounds like something we'd sing down at Reading.
(we hate Swindon more than you........)

You caught what I first posted before my really quick footwork I mean edit, you Swindon bastard

 

[8ball]

Fair concern, and that could well be a worry, yes

But if you look at some of the detailed figures on safety-levels (for both Pfizer and Oxford) after just the first dose, and then if all second doses are given before or at 12 weeks after, how much difference would that make?

I ask that question without an answer, and in the hope that a passing scientist may have a better idea.

I wouldn't be concerned about safety, but I haven't personally seen any effectiveness data relating to varying times between first and second dose, and I half-remember the period being shorter for the AZ-Oxford vaccine (though there could be a little anchoring bias because it is def way shorter for the Pfizer-Modena one, which my company had significant involvement with).

edit: should also mention, I'm not a virologist and don't know how much effect variance between doses is likely to have, or whether that effect may significantly differ between vaccine types.

 

[trashpony]

Carers have now been bumped up the priority list. So if you’re a carer for someone with a disability or an elderly person, you are now in category 6

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948338/jcvi-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination-30-dec-2020.pdf

I don’t claim carers allowance but the foal gets DLA and there’s no one else who can look after him. If you’re not a registered carer, you call your GP and ask that it’s on your health record

 

[zora]

Yikes. Just heard from my dad (79) that my mum (78) has been offered the vaccine via her volunteer position at a hospice (they are not in the UK).
Turns out, my mum is reluctant to accept it, not because she is against vaccinations, but because she is worried that she will be more likely to infect my dad!
Fuck. It's kinda heart melting/heart breaking, and I didn't really know what to say. I had trouble understanding if she was worried that the vaccination as such would make it possible for her to pass it on (which imu can be ruled out), or if she thinks she might be more likely to not know if she did get infected and therefore pass it on. And I guess this second part is still under review.
Obviously, we'll discuss further between my mum, dad and my brother.
Anyone got any info about her concern?

Eta: It can't be that much of an issue, otherwise the whole vaccination schedule would need to be somewhat different, doing households together etc? And obviously, she would still be meant to try and not get it anyway, just like she would be without the vaccination, keep wearing FFP2 masks in a shop and in the hospice etc?

 

[weltweit]

zora I don't think she would be any more likely to pass on a virus if she has been vaccinated.

 

[LDC]

Yikes. Just heard from my dad (79) that my mum (78) has been offered the vaccine via her volunteer position at a hospice (they are not in the UK).
Turns out, my mum is reluctant to accept it, not because she is against vaccinations, but because she is worried that she will be more likely to infect my dad!
Fuck. It's kinda heart melting/heart breaking, and I didn't really know what to say. I had trouble understanding if she was worried that the vaccination as such would make it possible for her to pass it on (which imu can be ruled out), or if she thinks she might be more likely to not know if she did get infected and therefore pass it on. And I guess this second part is still under review.
Obviously, we'll discuss further between my mum, dad and my brother.
Anyone got any info about her concern?

Eta: It can't be that much of an issue, otherwise the whole vaccination schedule would need to be somewhat different, doing households together etc? And obviously, she would still be meant to try and not get it anyway, just like she would be without the vaccination, keep wearing FFP2 masks in a shop and in the hospice etc?

I can't see any reason why she shouldn't get it. The only thing I can think of is if after having it she changes her behaviour because she feels safer, but that doesn't sound likely?

 

[zora]

I can't see any reason why she shouldn't get it. The only thing I can think of is if after having it she changes her behaviour because she feels safer, but that doesn't sound likely?

Right, that's sort of what I thought, too. But yeah, after having been such a bloody covid know-it-all all year, I felt suddenly really stumped when presented with this; possibly because it was so emotional, thinking of my mum worrying about and wanting to protect my dad!

 

[wtfftw]

Yikes. Just heard from my dad (79) that my mum (78) has been offered the vaccine via her volunteer position at a hospice (they are not in the UK).
Turns out, my mum is reluctant to accept it, not because she is against vaccinations, but because she is worried that she will be more likely to infect my dad!
Fuck. It's kinda heart melting/heart breaking, and I didn't really know what to say. I had trouble understanding if she was worried that the vaccination as such would make it possible for her to pass it on (which imu can be ruled out), or if she thinks she might be more likely to not know if she did get infected and therefore pass it on. And I guess this second part is still under review.
Obviously, we'll discuss further between my mum, dad and my brother.
Anyone got any info about her concern?

Eta: It can't be that much of an issue, otherwise the whole vaccination schedule would need to be somewhat different, doing households together etc? And obviously, she would still be meant to try and not get it anyway, just like she would be without the vaccination, keep wearing FFP2 masks in a shop and in the hospice etc?

Is this the worry?

Here’s Why Vaccinated People Still Need to Wear a Mask (Published 2020)

The new vaccines will probably prevent you from getting sick with Covid. No one knows yet whether they will keep you from spreading the virus to others — but that information is coming.

www.nytimes.com

 

[wtfftw]

I guess she gets vaccinated but carries on being super careful. sorry. I see you covered it in your post.

 

[zora]

I guess she gets vaccinated but carries on being super careful. sorry. I see you covered it in your post.

Don't be sorry! And the article was helpful also, clarifying a couple of points - and expressing the hope at least that the vaccination will make onward transmission less likely.
Need to get to the bottom of what my mum's actual concern is. And of course all of this is so highly emotional, and I am not used to my mum being emotional. She is such a tough cookie and always has such a cheerful, optimistic facade (for better or worse...), so to hear her love and concern for my dad expressed in this way has just floored me a little.

 

[wtfftw]

Don't be sorry! And the article was helpful also, clarifying a couple of points - and expressing the hope at least that the vaccination will make onward transmission less likely.
Need to get to the bottom of what my mum's actual concern is. And of course all of this is so highly emotional, and I am not used to my mum being emotional. She is such a tough cookie and always has such a cheerful, optimistic facade (for better or worse...), so to hear her love and concern for my dad expressed in this way has just floored me a little.

Need that huggy heart response thing like on fb. Love to you x

 

[SpookyFrank]

Seems they're now planning to give some people one dose of one vaccine, then a dose of the other one. Because why not just roll the fucking dice and see what works even though we already know what works because they spent ages testing it.

I swear they're determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this.

 

[platinumsage]

Seems they're now plannimg to give some people one dose of one vaccine, then a dose of the other one. Because why not just roll the fucking dice and see what works even though we already know what works because they spent ages testing it.

I swear they're determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this.

It doesn't seem like that at all.

What happened is that PHE stated the following in a publication for health professionals:

"If the course is interrupted or delayed, it should be resumed using the same vaccine but the first dose should not be repeated. There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine. For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule. This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again. In these circumstances, as both the vaccines are based on the spike protein, it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose. For this reason, until additional information becomes available, further doses would not then be required."

Then the media or someone off of twitter latched on to an out-of-context quote, and now it's a "government plan".

EDIT: It was the New York Times who have now been asked to retract the story:

Coronavirus: BMJ urges NYT to correct vaccine 'mixing' article

The medical journal's editor says UK guidelines don't recommend giving different coronavirus jabs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[scifisam]

Right, that's sort of what I thought, too. But yeah, after having been such a bloody covid know-it-all all year, I felt suddenly really stumped when presented with this; possibly because it was so emotional, thinking of my mum worrying about and wanting to protect my dad!

Apart from sensible concerns about going out to get the jab, it's probably not being sure whether the virus is "live" or not and what that means. The polio vaccination was live for a long time - it actually infected you, at the same time as giving you the antibodies, and, in very rare cases, it meant that you could transmit polio. In the 90s I went to school with a girl who was disabled due to polio that was caught via the live vaccine.

Assuming your Mum's a lot older than my 45 years, she might have met a couple of people like that too. If she's already worried then maybe she's having vague memories of that.

But the covid vaccine isn't live. It does not introduce the virus into your system and doesn't mean you can pass it on. It is literally impossible for it to do that. It just sends in the troops, not the enemy.

ETA: Mums often hide their deeper fears and emotions from their kids, even when they're grown up. Stepping out of capable-Mum mode and into fearful-fellow-human is a big change.

 

[zora]

I did try and do a bit of research and the only thing I came across was something about "live" flu vaccinations for children, and that contact between newly vaccinated children and severely immunosuppressed people (eg recovering from organ transplant) needed to be avoided for a couple of weeks

That thing about polio- and how that might be something she would have been more likely to have come across, given her generation, is really interesting, thank you for that scifisam.