little_legs
Поехали!
eta link correction http://twitpic.com/b73azj
the story is already available online
the story is already available online
How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?
- Thread starter free spirit
- Start date
Was it the Ultra Blairite Patricia Hewitt who was director of the then NCCL, Sue Slipman, Harman even?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What the OP is talking about, though, isn't loads of small rings, but an over-arching "grand lodge" of child-molesting that nonces from all over the UK belong to/subscribe to, and that exerts influence on policy, over the criminal justice system etc.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Anyone happen to have a copy of the novel mentioned in the article?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Impossible to know population prevalence, but operating on what we know from offences of child molestation (excluding downloading kiddie-porn or "internet grooming", which are arguably, as far as current research is concerned, not contact crimes, and therefore aren't categorised similarly) that your figure of one in two hundred, or 0.5%, is too small. If offences were extrapolated into statistics and the same under-reoprting percentages were taken as apply to adult rape, then it's more like one in eighty to one in a hundred.
Obviously, such extrapolations are usually wildly-inaccurate, but they at least give us a "base range".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So your main criterion would be contact offences? Fair enough.
elbows
Well-Known Member
No, but there are some used copies floating around.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0947795839/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Charles actually, viewed neutrally, seems to have been a nexus for people with dubious sexual morality towards children, insofar as his two main influences - Louis Battenburg and Laurens Van der Post - have long been the focus of credible stories about child molestation.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
There clearly isn’t a Grand Lodge (ie, one single ring covering every prominent member of society) but it is highly likely that are several rings (possible based in specific localities), some of whose members may also be members, or have close associations with, other similar rings.
This creates a chain of inter-connecting rings, without a single over-arching network of abusers. In the case of Jimmy Savile, for example, he may have been a (very prominent) member of an alleged “ring” at the BBC, but also a member of another ring at HLG, or Broadmoor and so on.
The BBC are now reporting that the police are now actively investigating allegations of abuse by other “high profile” people and it is being suggested that arrests could be iminent. The police are due to give an update later today.
Time will tell if any of these people are inter-connected.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
This is such a complex area. When we say a ring of prominent and/or influential people, what are we actually talking about, and at what level of society?
For example, a TV celebrity may be prominent by way of being in the public eye (say, Joe Bloggs in a popular soap) but he may be far less influential in terms of providing and/or enabling access to children than, say, a director of children’s services at a large local authority.
Clearly, there isn’t a separate “section” of abusers whose membership is solely confined to celebrities or to politicians, but they may constitute a large proportion of that particular “ring” simply because they are more likely to come into social contact with each other.
I’m certainly no expert, but it seems to be likely that the membership of rings is fluid, with different abusers being members (ie, active participants) at different times, dropping in and out of the abusive activity.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
I would consider also offesnes such as downloading film / photos of child abuse as actual child abuse
I do not believe in thought crime or labelling anyone on the basis of what they think
Just for clarification
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I asked because there's a persistent academic debate around what constitutes child abuse, and differentiation between contact and non-contact offences is one of the issues getting a lot of research attention, as (as far as the extant research can establish) a majority of downloaders/collectors haven't and don't go on to make contact offences. I just wondered which side of the debate you came down on. Now I know!
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The phone business, while distasteful, is nothing compared to this.
The Metropolitan Police announced this evening that they were about to make arrests.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
The phone business was of far greater interest to the journalists and politicians than everyone else. Similarly the expenses scandal. Basically cos no-one expected any better from them.
This is a bit different though, eh.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I asked because there's a persistent academic debate around what constitutes child abuse, and differentiation between contact and non-contact offences is one of the issues getting a lot of research attention, as (as far as the extant research can establish) a majority of downloaders/collectors haven't and don't go on to make contact offences. I just wondered which side of the debate you came down on. Now I know!
Aye, but you have to think that every picture of an abused child is just that, an abused child. If there was no market for such material, it wouldn't be made.
I have had the rather horrible experience of nursing a child who had been raped. The details are sickening, and I am not going to post them. Enough to say, I remember the time with such clarity I could give evidence in a court of law. This from something that happened more than thirty years ago.
To me, people who do these things are either mentally unwell, or evil beyond normal comprehension. To remove them from circulation permanently, I would be content for them to be adjudged unwell, and detained in the easier regime of a secure hospital. What I would like to do, is put them in prison, in the general population, however that would be tantamount to complicity in murder.
Cps no longer hold the evidence/ statements Tom Watson asked about in parliament yesterday, BBC journalist Ross Hawkins has tweeted.
I believe this stuff would have taken things right into the heart of the Conservative party, historic and contemporary. Hopefully Watson keeps at it.
I believe this stuff would have taken things right into the heart of the Conservative party, historic and contemporary. Hopefully Watson keeps at it.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Yes, it is. I dread to think who is going to be implicated in this.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Of course, but I still think it's sensible to differentiate between contact and non-contact offending, especially if examining non-contact offending offers the hope of finding treatment pathways for people early in their offending history.
The sad truth is that most paedophiles aren't mentally-unwell or evil, they're either regressed (i.e. unable to relate to adults sexually, often due to their own experiences of abuse) or they're opportunists of the same type as any rapist (there's a fair amount of crossover in terms of opportunist offending in that offenders often offend on both sides of the age divide).
What they do could be classed as "evil", and the consequences are horrible, but simply imposing a dichotomy that says such offenders are mentally-unwell or evil lets them off the hook. It excuses their participation in and culpability for what happens.
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
what a peadophile likes
what a paedophile likes
Can somebody help me out here pls?
Can somebody help me out here pls?
With what?
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
It's quite unbelievable isnt it
I would have thought that, at the time, entertainers (notably in the music business) sleeping with underage girls was pretty commonplace, and was regarded merely as a “perk” of the job.
It doesn’t appear that Savile went to any great lengths to hide what he was doing, and even strongly hinted at it in his autobiography. And I very much doubt band members asked to see girls’ birth certificates before shagging them at the back of the tour bus.
I guess if you had told the average man in the 1970s that Jimmy Saville liked, and had access to, schoolgirls the reaction would have ranged between “so what” and “lucky bastard”. Thankfully, times have moved on.
But if you’d have told the same person Jimmy Saville liked to shag schoolboys, their reaction would probably have been totally different.
Indeed, to my mind there is often a clear distinction between how men at that time viewed the sexual abuse of under-age teenage girls, and schoolboys of the same age. The former acceptable, and often enviable, the latter seen as a filthy perversion.
When MI5 wanted to smear politicians, it was often by association with the sexual abuse of boys, not girls.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
TBH I don't think there is about to be a massive morality sweep of people who boned 19-year-olds in the early 90s.
Hang on there was a link to Basque terrorists as well?
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
With Pickman's cryptic photo competition.
Similar threads
- Poll
