Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.

[Treacle Toes]

(At the risk of being contraversial )

At what point do we move on from this?

Obviously not for the families concerned, but everyone else I mean.

It's getting nigh on thirty years now.

If you don't care to remember what an earth are you doing on this thread?

I am not even a football fan and I will never forget what I saw on TV and in the papers at the time. Add to that the disgusting, dishonorable way that the media and establishment treated the memory of those who died and their grieving families.

Most importantly, I will never forget just how deep those families and the city of Liverpool have dug to fight back and get justice. They are an example to us all.

 

[chandlerp]

Better for who?

 

[Red Cat]

The victims of Bradford have been pretty much forgotten!

If you post on this thread again with this kind of shit, I'll report it. This is anti-Liverpool prejudice, don't think I don't recognise it when I see it.

 

[Red Cat]

No it doesn't.


Fair point. I realise this is still a sensitive subject for very good reasons.

But there will and must come a point for moving on. Hopefully we can get everything wrapped up for the 30th anniversary.

This is anti-Liverpool prejudice too. It has no place here or anywhere else on the boards. Wrap it up.

 

[butchersapron]

Phil Scraton on Hillsborough 28 Years On: Phil Scraton on Owning The Truth Of April 15, 1989. Ignore the subscribe bit and scroll down to the bit that says 'direct'.

Professor Phil Scraton, campaigner and author of Hillsborough: The Truth, speaks to Gareth Roberts about the long fight for truth and justice, from the days when it became clear a cover-up was in process just days after the disaster to the elation of the verdict at the inquests last year.

In between was a long and arduous battle for information, for recognition and for the powers that be to recognise what was right and wrong. Phil has been at the centre of it all, alongside the families and the survivors, from 1989 through to 2017, and here he speaks candidly about the highs and lows of those 28 years.

 

[Favelado]

This "move on" thing has been around LFC boards for over 15 years. It's always someone pretending to have good intentions dressing up their trolling. Lucky no-one has ever listened to it or we'd still be believing the official version of events. Why don't the critics move on? They are consistently wrong. You need a new mantra, not Hillsborough campaign supporters.

 

[butchersapron]

Move on - don't talk back to power, don't question what you're told. Move on - leave lies standing, leave corruption unchallenged. Move on.

 

[Favelado]

Understood.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The victims of Bradford have been pretty much forgotten!

Not by me, or by anyone else who saw the broadcast or was at the match.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK third and final attempt.

My personal opinion is that it would be better all round if this was concluded in the next couple of years, ie in time for the 30th anniversary.

My personal opinion is that we should never forget that effectively the 96 were unlawfully killed through the actions and inaction of senior police officers, and that remembering that the police are capable of doing this, and culpable for it, is more important than giving you an easy time through not being reminded about Hillsborough.

 

[Beetlebum]

Define culpable.

This was clearly police incompetance of the highest order combined with dreadful outdated stadium design but you seem to be implying it is something more.

 

[brogdale]

Define culpable.

This was clearly police incompetance of the highest order combined with dreadful outdated stadium design but you seem to be implying it is something more.

You've done that yourself; the actions/inactions of the police that directly contributed to the death of those 96 fans; culpability.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Protecting the reputations of senior police was more important than giving closure to the families and friends of 96 dead human beings, and it didn't make a bit of difference that an entire city was thrown under a bus to do it.

That's what the police can do, and have done. Fuck your feelings.

 

[Beetlebum]

You've do that yourself; the actions/inactions of the police that directly contributed to the death of those 96 fans; culpability.

Contributed, yes. Those who blame this soley on the police are arguably as bad as those who blame the Liverpool fans on the day. You need to look at the stadium design and a whole load of other factors including the behaviour of some football fans in the late seventies early eighties to get at the root causes

 

[Red Cat]

Can we all agree to ignore this provocation?

 

[brogdale]

Contributed, yes. Those who blame this soley on the police are arguably as bad as those who blame the Liverpool fans on the day. You need to look at the stadium design and a whole load of other factors including the behaviour of football fans in general in the late seventies early eighties to get at the root causes

Yes, the police were culpable.

 

[butchersapron]

Can we all agree to ignore this provocation?

Contributed, yes. Those who blame this soley on the police are arguably as bad as those who blame the Liverpool fans on the day. You need to look at the stadium design and a whole load of other factors including the behaviour of football fans in general in the late seventies early eighties to get at the root causes

None of the various inquiries found fan behaviour to be culpable in any way. I'm now taking red cat's suggestion given that this is just a calmly stated 'always victims' approach.

 

[Red Cat]

Can we all agree to ignore? The evidence is out there, there is no need to go over and over. Someone who chooses not to believe does so for reasons that has nothing to do with evidence.

 

[Red Cat]

Phil Scraton on Hillsborough 28 Years On: Phil Scraton on Owning The Truth Of April 15, 1989. Ignore the subscribe bit and scroll down to the bit that says 'direct'.

I'm listening to this now, its really interesting.

 

[Beetlebum]

None of the various inquiries found fan behaviour to be culpable in any way. I'm now taking red cat's suggestion given that this is just a calmly stated 'always victims' approach.

I'm not talking about fan behaviour on the day. I'm talking about the behaviour problem in general from the mid 70s on. I've edited my post to reflect the fact this was a minority but those railings were there because of previous issues. They might have been the wrong response to the problem, of course they were, but hindsight is always 20 20.

 

[B.I.G]

I'm not talking about fan behaviour on the day. I'm talking about the behaviour problem in general from the mid 70s on. I've edited my post to reflect the fact this was a minority but those railings were there because of previous issues. They might have been the wrong response to the problem, of course they were, but hindsight is always 20 20.

What about the behaviour of any race, religion, or class contributing to their treatment?!?!? They are bringing it on themselves obv.

 

[agricola]

I'm not talking about fan behaviour on the day. I'm talking about the behaviour problem in general from the mid 70s on. I've edited my post to reflect the fact this was a minority but those railings were there because of previous issues. They might have been the wrong response to the problem, of course they were, but hindsight is always 20 20.

You do give yourself away a bit by still talking about fan behaviour generally. If you want to extend the responsibility for what happened beyond South Yorkshire Police, I would have thought the FA would be a much more sensible place to start than fans.

 

[Beetlebum]

Well whatever your view Everton have just joined Liverpool in banning the Sun.

Everton ban the Sun after Ross Barkley article

 

[Treacle Toes]

Better late than never.

 

[butchersapron]

Great stuff. Glad they held that back till today - though i bet it was tempting to do it last night.

 

[agricola]

Great stuff. Glad they held that back till today - though i bet it was tempting to do it last night.

The bad thing about the delay is that it means Anderson has been able to appear as if he has demanded and won this act.

 

[butchersapron]

The bad thing about the delay is that it means Anderson has been able to appear as if he has demanded and won this act.

Oh yeah - that's true.

Given Everton's massive social investment - miles ahead of other clubs - i'm surprised it's taken this long.

 

[agricola]

Oh yeah - that's true.

Given Everton's massive social investment - miles ahead of other clubs - i'm surprised it's taken this long.

I would not be surprised if they had warned the paper that unless there was a meaningful and genuine apology, accompanied by MacKenzie's sacking, by a set point last night that this would be the outcome of it. Obviously none of that was forthcoming and so they have been booted out.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Surely it is time every club booted the Scum out, they are wholly anti-football, so why allow them anywhere near a match?

 

[brogdale]

Surely it is time every club booted the Scum out, they are wholly anti-football, so why allow them anywhere near a match?

Sky £.