Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.

[Miss-Shelf]

Arse covering when done by those in authority uses so much power and privilege that it does become a conspiracy of a sort

 

[butchersapron]

was watching a beeb docu earlier on the matter and it left out so much. So so much that we know. But there was a copper on it giving his testimony, talking about the notebooks etc but he wasn't all there, not 'on point' he was at times clearly struggling. God damn them for making me feel a shred of sympathy. You've had your 27 years, those others haven't and never will. And again and again I keep wanting there to be a grander reason. A conspiracy maybe, a reason that goes beyond arse covering and treating people like cattle. But thats pretty much all it was. For that...

That copper also appears in a BBC miners strike doco - son of a miner, making anti-met arguments. He was talking then that he couldn't deal with it, yet 4 years later here he is again.

edit: i'll find the vid later.

 

[dessiato]

It was during the miner's strike that I first spent a lot of time with the police. I'd spend time in their bars, and going to their clubs. I also worked alongside them, up to chief constable level. It was when I first realised how corrupt they are. I'm one hundred percent certain that police were directly responsible for a lot of the trouble between them and the miners. They told me that was what they'd done, and what they'd been instructed to do. I'm also 100% certain that this is not the only occasion, nor the only crimes they've been directly involved in. I only hope that the truth comes out sooner rather than later.

 

[DotCommunist]

Arse covering when done by those in authority uses so much power and privilege that it does become a conspiracy of a sort

yeah I know, and would it really be any better if their had been some dark plan or whatever? Not at all. Its just so fucking unbelievable that they would do this. Well, its not cos we know it happened but on a human level I cannot understand how a fuckup could have been turned so easily and by so many parties into this giant 27 year fuckaround.

That copper also appears in a BBC miners strike doco - son of a miner, making anti-met arguments. He was talking then that he couldn't deal with it, yet 4 years later here he is again.

edit: i'll find the vid later.

crocodile tears you think? the go to emotive one that humanises the OB?

 

[butchersapron]

Real tears, but he's still there years later.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Hillsborough

Just leave this here...we never expect great things from the beeb but still.

 

[chandlerp]

It's a slight reworking (i.e. brought up to date) of an HBO/BBC documentary from a couple of years back. I watched it at the time. It was only shown outside the UK before this week because of the ongoing inquests.

 

[butchersapron]

It's a slight reworking (i.e. brought up to date) of an HBO/BBC documentary from a couple of years back. I watched it at the time. It was only shown outside the UK before this week because of the ongoing inquests.

ESPN rather than HBO. Yes, not been able to show here but easily available for anyone who really wanted to watch it. Very well done.

 

[brogdale]

I don't know to what extent they're new, but some of the revelations in Alex Thompson's C4 News report yesterday were quite startling...

Catch up
(Former police officer alleges Hillsborough cover-up)

 

[butchersapron]

That copper also appears in a BBC miners strike doco - son of a miner, making anti-met arguments. He was talking then that he couldn't deal with it, yet 4 years later here he is again.

edit: i'll find the vid later.

This is he - he later went to prison. I can't find the BBC vid of the miners strike one, though it is reffed in the piece including confirmation that he was at Orgreave.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know to what extent they're new, but some of the revelations in Alex Thompson's C4 News report yesterday were quite startling...

Catch up
(Former police officer alleges Hillsborough cover-up)

Brayford has been saying this for years now. So i don't think anything new, but all part of the background picture. Not sure i really trust his intentions given his obviously close friendship with mole and possible inter-police professional rivalry i.e Brayford maybe thinking that it should have been running the operation rather than Duckenfield after Mole was moved to Barnsley.

 

[brogdale]

Brayford has been saying this for years now. So i don't think anything new, but all part of the background picture. Not sure i really trust his intentions given his obviously close friendship with mole and possible inter-police professional rivalry i.e Brayford maybe thinking that it should have been running the operation rather than Duckenfield after Mole was moved to Barnsley.

I suspected as much, but the stuff about the club specifically asking those two to attend...is that some sort of smoke & mirrors on behalf of the club, or do you think they really were worried about Duckenfield fucking things up?

 

[butchersapron]

I suspected as much, but the stuff about the club specifically asking those two to attend...is that some sort of smoke & mirrors on behalf of the club, or do you think they really were worried about Duckenfield fucking things up?

Hard to tell, because, well, we just can't trust them can we? We do know that DD did end up fucking up though. I've had a look at Brayford's evidence to the independent panel and there's nothing there to back up what he's saying, no notes or briefings between him and Mole or others, just a few crappy diagrams that don't really make him look as if he would have been any better than DD. Very amateurish in fact.

 

[brogdale]

Hard to tell, because, well, we just can't trust them can we? We do know that DD did end up fucking up though. I've had a look at Brayford's evidence to the independent panel and there's nothing there to back up what he's saying, no notes or briefings between him and Mole or others, just a few crappy diagrams that don't really make him look as if he would have been any better than DD. Very amateurish in fact.

Thanks; interesting.

 

[Voley]

Hillsborough

Just leave this here...we never expect great things from the beeb but still.

God that was hard to watch. Well made, though. Good, methodical approach. Thought I'd just about held it together until Margaret Aspinall was on at the end and it did me in good and proper. I really liked Phil Scraton who uncovered the documents in the House Of Lords - a good old-fashioned investigative journalist. He was fucking spot on with his criticism at the end, too.

 

[Orang Utan]

I had to watch that in two sittings. such staggering contempt from the authorities for the victims.

 

[butchersapron]

God that was hard to watch. Well made, though. Good, methodical approach. Thought I'd just about held it together until Margaret Aspinall was on at the end and it did me in good and proper. I really liked Phil Scraton who uncovered the documents in the House Of Lords - a good old-fashioned investigative journalist. He was fucking spot on with his criticism at the end, too.

Academic rather than investigative journo - but much of the work he has done on this has been of an investigative nature. Partly because so few other people picked up the baton.

 

[William of Walworth]

Hillsborough

Just leave this here...we never expect great things from the beeb but still.

Looks like I need to watch this

Is that the same documentary that you watched, DotCommunist ?

 

[Voley]

Academic rather than investigative journo - but much of the work he has done on this has been of an investigative nature. Partly because so few other people picked up the baton.

I've not read his book but it looks like he was one of the first to get to the heart of the matter. Due an update I'd imagine. I must read it as and when that happens.

 

[Sprocket.]

Just watched the Hillsborough prog from Sunday on iPlayer.
It is really sickening to watch the truth having to be searched and yet still those responsible for lying about and burying that truth are still seen by many as upholders of the law.
SYP management are contemptible and beyond any hope of being sorry for their performance since they were formed.
Slightly off topic though
I was also interested to hear that on Sunday at Bramall Lane where Sheffield United were playing Scunthorpe the riot geared constables were from Durham Constabulary.

 

[DotCommunist]

Looks like I need to watch this

Is that the same documentary that you watched, DotCommunist ?

It is m8

 

[Teaboy]

A couple of interesting articles in this week's Private Eye about John Beggs QC the Police's go to barrister. A couple of choice extracts:

Beggs - self proclaimed "excellent" and "impressive" advocate - was the attack dog for the many legal teams representing SYP past and present. Thus it was that survivors at Hillsborough were repeatedly questioned about being "in drink". Steve Kelly, who lost his brother, told the EYE: "I was there every day, and Beggs used alcohol to deflect the blame, my brother had no alcohol in him. The survivors hadn't spoken for 27 years, they were traumatised, and he went for them"

As one of the lawyers for the families said "Beggs, sometimes appeared to be deliberately 'goading' families in the public gallery, trying to provoke a reaction. It was all about using the lowest form of criminal bar tricks to try and prejudice the jury and deflect attention from police failures."

 

[Orang Utan]

Couldn't believe that insensitive joke that Lord Justice Stewart-Smith made about Liverpool fans turning up at the last minute at the investigation that Jack Straw launched. He should have been immediately replaced for that.

 

[DotCommunist]

I had to watch that in two sittings. such staggering contempt from the authorities for the victims.

the fried chicken bit. for fucks sake. Had not read about that before. Just another example of this:

Couldn't believe that insensitive joke that Lord Justice Stewart-Smith made about Liverpool fans turning up at the last minute at the investigation that Jack Straw launched. He should have been immediately replaced for that.

this. The contempt.

 

[Sprocket.]

Couldn't believe that insensitive joke that Lord Justice Stewart-Smith made about Liverpool fans turning up at the last minute at the investigation that Jack Straw launched. He should have been immediately replaced for that.

That remark for me summed up all the contempt and disrespect the families had faced since the evening of the 15th April 89.
The callous throwaway utterance should as you say, seen him dismissed immediately.
I hope he lays awake at night gnashing his teeth in a sleepless rage following the triumph of justice for the 96 and the families.
Utter scum.

 

[Orang Utan]

the fried chicken bit. for fucks sake. Had not read about that before. Just another example of this:

this. The contempt.

Can't recall the fried chicken bit?

 

[DotCommunist]

Can't recall the fried chicken bit?

Inquests told of family's distress as police ate fried chicken in temp mortuary

 

[DotCommunist]

its a smaller point among them all but its one that charecterises the sheer fuck-you of it all

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Strangely enough the ex-Lord Justice of Appeal, the Rt Hon Sir Murray Stuart-Smith, doesn't include his particular bigoted contribution to the injustices of Hillsborough in his Debretts entry....but it is nice to know that he likes 'playing cello, shooting, building, playing bridge'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[butchersapron]

Strangely enough the ex-Lord Justice of Appeal, the Rt Hon Sir Murray Stuart-Smith, doesn't include his particular bigoted contribution to the injustices of Hillsborough in his Debretts entry....but it is nice to know that he likes 'playing cello, shooting, building, playing bridge'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

...and helping his son to become a high court judge in turn.