Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.

[butchersapron]

The blood alcohol, coroner talking about that now and will from part of this one.

 

[laptop]

and this (note - link to a doc) coroners order that seems to severely restrict reporting of last weeks pre-inquest.

No longer available as a .DOC at that address. See PDFs from http://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/documents-and-rulings/

The order was immediately varied (following a challenge, I'll wager) thus:

The order made on 31 March 2014, pursuant to Section 4(2) of the Contempt of Court Act
1981, is hereby varied as follows. Reporting is permitted of proceedings on 31 March 2014
to the extent only that it may be reported that (a) a jury is being empanelled to serve in these
inquests; (b) the jury is to be sworn on 1 April 2014; and (c) potential jurors have been
provided with a non-exhaustive list of potential witnesses with a view to considering whether
any of them knows a potential witness.

Does make some sense... do all the witnesses yet know they'll be called? Who might do a runner?

 

[butchersapron]

Diff ruling mate. Come back in this later but this was about last weeks pre-inquest meeting.

 

[laptop]

Diff ruling mate. Come back in this later but this was about last weeks pre-inquest meeting.

Ah, this: http://hillsboroughinquests.indepen...f-Court-Act-1981-Order-and-Agenda-27-3-14.pdf

Same principle about legal arguments.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Going to be a year of this:



This is the talk about what will be covered.

Urgh, it's gonna be a depressing year.

This isn't some truth and reconciliation bollocks is it? These fuckers need to go down, for a long time.

 

[laptop]

This isn't some truth and reconciliation bollocks is it?

That was my first thought on seeing the BBC memorial page

 

[friedaweed]

This isn't some truth and reconciliation bollocks is it? These fuckers need to go down, for a long time.

Justice isn't truth and reconciliation. If they try that we'll be back to square one. They know who did the dirty work and they can give the cunts up now and keep their sign of the times lies to themselves it wont wash with the families.

 

[DaveCinzano]

A slight tangent, but any help on this most appreciated.

Does anyone know if John Beggs QC - the silk (“indisputably the lead QC to go to if you're a police force in a tight spot”) representing Duckenfield & co for the PSA and who said the Hillsborough Inquiry wasn't independent because it dealt with survivors' and support groups which have “an agenda” - was ever actually charged in connection with his previous life as an animal rights activist & spokesman for ALF, HRS, ARM etc?

The 1989 Henshaw book says no.

Also, anyone know what he did between 1993 & 1998?

(PS Yes, I have seen the April/May 2012 Private Eye articles but they don't address the questions above.)

 

[treelover]

Trevor Hicks presented his 'portrait of the victims' today at the hearing, heart breaking: he lost two beautiful daughters, he should never have gone through what he has, the deaths and then the obscene cover up, they have a lot to answer for. I was in Liverpool at the time and our community arts training centre made the banner that was used in the Cathedral Memorial, footballers, families and fans all came to the centre to pay their respects and to see the banner.

never forget!

 

[TopCat]

I can see where this is going.

 

[JTG]

All games kicking off at 3:07 today.

Still remember that day so clearly - a young lad desperate for Everton to beat Norwich and reach the final. Going out and playing football with my brother on the school tennis courts next to our house, knowing there had been a delay in the other semi final but assuming it was only temporary. Coming in to watch the final scores on ITV and seeing Elton Welsby's grim face announcing the news from Sheffield. Pat Nevin's winner at Villa Park suddenly completely irrelevant to even this Everton mad 11 year old.

That was when I knew that the Thatcher government hated football fans like me. ID cards were going to be imposed on all of us and then they lied and lied and lied about Hillsborough. I've never trusted the police since.

Justice better be coming because the truth's been out there for 25 years and we all knew it.

 

[purenarcotic]

My mum was pregnant with me when Hillsborough happened so obviously I don't remember it but she does clearly. She remembers crying watching the news and the sheer disgust when she saw the scum's headlines afterwards. I remember her telling me about it when I was a kid and had first heard about it in Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch and how much the families had been fucked over but how important it was to never, ever stop fighting for what's right.

Will be thinking of the 96 today and this coming week. RIP and let right be done.

 

[chandlerp]

The Mail has an article about the silence observed at the matches today. The comments beneath it are fucking depressing...time to move on, only ever the victim etc....ffs.

 

[JTG]

The Mail has an article about the silence observed at the matches today. The comments beneath it are fucking depressing...time to move on, only ever the victim etc....ffs.

I was having these arguments in the 1990s when it really was an outsider campaign and the official line was very widely accepted. There is absolutely no way that events like today's would have been held back then across the country to commemorate the victims and widely acknowledge that justice was not served at the time. There are still nobheads out there who believe the sort of stuff you quote - but they're a lot rarer than they were. We've come a very long way (over far too long a time however).

I had a grim smile today at the Bristol Rovers game over how certain members of the club establishment who chided me on email lists in the late 90s for advocating the Hillsborough families' cause would have been solemnly standing and agreeing with the words concerning justice being spoken before the silence.

 

[chandlerp]

The comments got so bad they have been switched off

 

[Red Cat]

I woke up this morning from a nightmare about Anfield having been burned to the ground. I hadn't even read the comments.

 

[treelover]

edited after discussion,

 

[butchersapron]

Of course it's supportive given that he was reported to the OB after his comments about hillsborough and liverpool in general. It's cheap rubbish that doesn't really need promoting here or anywhere.

 

[treelover]

fair enough, its gone...

 

[Pickman's model]

... but not forgotten, like my darling clementine

 

[butchersapron]

The so-called Independent Press Standards Organisation And The Hillsborough Apologist:


http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ipso-and-hillsborough-apologist.html

The so-called Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO), named to give the pretence of independence when it does not have any, has now announced its board. And those of truly independent mind have homed in on the presence of one William Newman, former managing editor and then ombudsman of the Murdoch Sun.

...

“It is the Sun’s duty as a newspaper to publish information, however hurtful and unpalatable it may be at the time”, he told. “On reflection, we accept the way in which the article was displayed could have given cause for offence. For that we apologise. For the substance we do not ... We cannot possibly apologise for facts and to do so would be an abdication of our responsibility to a wider public”.

 

[worcesterian]

A slight tangent, but any help on this most appreciated.

Does anyone know if John Beggs QC - the silk (“indisputably the lead QC to go to if you're a police force in a tight spot”) representing Duckenfield & co for the PSA and who said the Hillsborough Inquiry wasn't independent because it dealt with survivors' and support groups which have “an agenda” - was ever actually charged in connection with his previous life as an animal rights activist & spokesman for ALF, HRS, ARM etc?

The 1989 Henshaw book says no.

Also, anyone know what he did between 1993 & 1998?

(PS Yes, I have seen the April/May 2012 Private Eye articles but they don't address the questions above.)

Hello Dave

At that stage it appears John Beggs was involved in other areas of legal work such as medical negligence. If you search for such a thing as up and coming junior counsel as he then was there is something about it. He knew quite a bit about policing back in the 1980s as he was legal officer for the HSA (hunt sabs) and wrote articles about civil liberties as applicable to sabs, |( I remember those magazines as I used to read them back then ) and at some stage (I think about 1999) he had some form of training film in relation to police which got an award in the USA.

Use 'wayback machine' to seek archived versions of pages no longer available in google (there might not be any as regards the Chambers John Beggs is presently with (or there may, I havent looked) and archived material might provide clarity as regards the type of work undertaken at a particular stage.

There is an interesting case to be found online where he was representing police in a civil action,. all hell broke loose, the reporting suggests that the unsuccessful litigant appeared furious with John Beggs and this courtroom drama at trial ended up leading to an affray charge and the chap was acquitted. Unfortunately, there isn't a great deal online about it but he had gone beserk according to the online reports, tables and all sorts being chucked about and legal teams running for cover. One wonders what that was all about.

No he wasn't ever charged for any of the things stated (or implied) in the Henshaw book as far as I know but you might wonder how being as close to some of the extremist agenda and characters that the Henshaw book presents how could the police feel comfortable having him It seems improbable they would not have had knowledge of a significant leading figure in that movement, the things they may have said publically, and any known associations. Of course, the Police will surely have been aware of the Henshaw book,. any sort of literary work like that was effective potential intelligence.

If someone applied to the Police to be a constable or even a CSO and they knew of such an animal rights ancestry they would almost certainly not appoint them (even if there were no charges or convictions Just being a member of the RSPCA or the League against Cruel Sports wouldnt matter

Hope that helps

 

[DaveCinzano]

Hope that helps

Yes thanks

 

[worcesterian]

This is a you tube video that shows John Beggs Q.C back in the 1980s before he was a Barrister. He is speaking on behalf of the South East Animal Liberation League

 

[chandlerp]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...saster-told-not-stick-nose-inquest-hears.html

 

[elbows]

http://www.theguardian.com/football...-inquest-officer-alcohol-scent-smell-of-death

A former South Yorkshire police officer who was on duty at the Hillsborough disaster in 1989 has said a reference he made in his statement to a "smell of alcohol" in the pens where 96 Liverpoolsupporters died was wrong in hindsight and could have been "the smell of death".

Alan Ramsden, who served in the force from 1974 until 2002, told the new inquest into the disaster that other officers had not encouraged him to make reference to alcohol. "It was just an assumption by me at the time," he said.

After the disaster, Ramsden's statement was changed, which he said was done without his approval, and of which he remained unaware until this year. The first change was to remove his recollection that before the 1987 FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough, police officers formed a cordon outside the Leppings Lane end to control the flow of supporters by ensuring they had tickets and did not carry anything offensive, including weapons. Two years later, police did not operate a similar "sterile area".

The second section removed from his statement referred to the location of the police control box at Hillsborough, "overlooking the area where the tragedy took place". Ramsden had written in his original account: "Were not the officers appreciative of the developing situation? What was the feedback from the officers working the perimeter of the pitch? Couldn't they see the developing crush on the terraces?"

He agreed with Simblet that his observation about the position of the control box was significant and remains important today. Mark George QC, representing 21 bereaved families, asked Ramsden: "You have got a control box overlooking the very end of the ground where this disaster happened, and you couldn't understand how on earth this had happened under the eyes of the officers in charge?"

"That's correct," Ramsden replied. He said he had felt "let down" by senior officers.

 

[butchersapron]

Ta for that. Was thinking of doing a round up over the weekend as there's been some important stuff over the last week. Hard to balance posting everything with what is 100% relevant/key/important.

 

[Voley]

Hard to balance posting everything with what is 100% relevant/key/important.

This thread's excellent for separating the wheat from the chaff. I often hear about stuff on this thread that I wouldn't stumble across otherwise. Many thanks to everyone who's contributed.

 

[butchersapron]

Worth mentioning whilst the inquest continues:

Final chance - Symphony No.11 'Hillsborough Memorial'

• Wednesday 17 September - 3:06

Liverpool Cathedral

As well as the live performance of Michael Nyman's Symphony No.11 'Hillsborough Memorial' on Saturday 5th July, you now have this last chance to hear a recording of the Symphony.

A recording of the symphony will be played in the awesome Main Space of the Cathedral on several dates over the Summer. The recording lasts approx. 1 hour.

Symphony No. 11: Hillsborough Memorial represents the culmination of Michael Nyman's thinking around the tragedies connected with Liverpool Football Club. 25 years after the Hillsborough disaster, he says that he hopes it will make a small but significant contribution to the healing process still necessary for the families of the lost fans.

 

[butchersapron]

This is from Madrid's recently named Margaret Thatcher Plaza:

Those stickers are variants of this: