How about you presenting your other profile of "these people" so we can compare and contrast as well?
Er...what? What do you mean that you 'were given a completely different profile of these people'? Do you mean the news-reporters and the football reporters? Or do you mean other groups? By who? Who is giving you a profile of these sets of people and why? And if this is who you for some reason were offered a dossier on, what did it say and what evidence did it contain to support whatever profile it presented.
What did this profile say an who presented you with it? What evidence did it provide to support its conclusions?
I don't think that you can argue that someone like Brian Glanville isn't a football fan or not part of football culture. He might not like the way that certain people behave and may not have much in common with the "average" fan, especially back then, but that doesn't mean he isn't a fan or part of football culture.
I didn't say he isn't a football fan - i said he wasn't part of football culture - the last meaning supporter culture, meaning going to away games together, being part of that collective experience of football support. He wasn't only not part of that culture, he looked down on it.
What, you'd previously been given evidence that the police and the establishment love football fans?
Of course it's evidence - the panel itself provides reams of evidence of how new-reporters were reliant on the police for their info and how the police used this reliance to their advantage in a way that they would not have been able to do so if these reporters were part of the supporter culture. It's one of the main points of the report - and you doubt it? I've asked you why and you've replied because you were given another profile 25 years ago but when pushed on this you seem to have nothing to say. Do you want to outline this other profile, who offered it to you and what evidence it relied onto make it's case. You can make your outline of it as 'guessy' as mine above if you like, but you really do have to outline it and the answers to those questions billy.
You said that you already have - hence you doubting my post. Are you now saying that you haven't?
i don't think you have to be middle class to be disturbed or disgusted by the behaviour of some football fans then and now.
No, the Hillsborough Independent Panel was not just a few names - it outlined in great detail how news reporters were reliant on the police for info and were taken for a ride in the way that someone from the football supporting culture would not have been able to - exactly in the way that i suggested and that you doubted.. The names i listed were of privately educated and also outside of the culture football writers who had very fractious relationships with the supporters that at times spilled over into violence (one flight home in particular if i recall correctly) - i reckon that violence might not have happened if that hostile relationship didn't exist. What do you think? I also outlined that this was also a recurring issue for one of the groups that grew out of supporter culture at that time, and suggested that another development indicating the existence of this gap was the incredible growth of fanzines in this period.
Do you think that the NUJ would give an objective view and state if their journalists were not interested in football or did not have much in common with the average fan?
No, you said that you had been presented with a different profile of the people who i mentioned. When asked what this profile amounted to you are unable to say a single thing about it, about what it said or what evidence it used to support it's position. Nothing. You claimed to have seen evidence that undermined my post, now you claim to have no evidence which does so - in fact, you claim not to have seen any evidence at all. Do make your mind up.
Cool, let's have a look at the content of the profile of news and football reporters that they for some reason presented you with in 84/5 - let's see what it says and what evidence it uses to support what it says. Crack on with your presentation please.
