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Griffin and BNP strategy

The Black Hand said:
Buttout butt hed - i was talking to Picky.
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4.jpg


Here comes the judge.

Louis MacNeice
 
The Black Hand said:
U 'never have been never will be' dorks never got what CW was really about. As it goes, I have politically worked with Ian for some time, I like his stuff, I respect the man and I wouldn't cross him. That is political solidarity my friends, something you lot do not seem to get. You lot, with the exception of Pickman I have never worked with and owe nothing to. What Pickman did I regard as treachery as I treated him as a friend. Not any more, that was a mistake I learned from.
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i'm happy to hear you've learned from something.
 
Two videos indicating feelings against Griffin and those leading the campaign against his leadership of the BNP. The first includes Lawrence Rusteem who has some interesting things to say about his past:



Some members here have their say here about image, policy and presentation.

 
For the third time:

The British National Party and the party’s Regional Accounting Unit were both granted an extension to the deadline for submitting their statements of accounts. Both have failed to deliver their accounts within the extended deadline so the party will be fined a minimum of £500 and the accounting unit will be fined a minimum £100, this figure will increase if the accounts are more than three months late.
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Financial shenanigans?

One of the sections of the new BNP constitution that Griffin slipped in without telling anyone states that all the party’s assets belong to the so-called Founders’ Association. That body is not defined in the constitution but it is understood to be all BNP members who joined before the new constitution came into effect in February and are still members. If the party does not own its assets, they cannot correctly be included in its accounts, which would greatly increase the party’s insolvency.
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These BNP "founders" hoping its members will keep their heads firmly in the sand?

....although Dowson has raised unprecedented sums in donations, Griffin has been spending far more on madnesses such as using an image of Marmite on a BNP election broadcast, which attracted an injunction from Unilever, defending indefensible unfair dismissal claims from former employees and dragging out his response to the Equality Commission’s action over the party’s racist constitution to the extent that the legal costs are believed to be running at £300,000 so far.
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Source:
 
BNP member, Shelly Rose speaking about her dodgy experiences in the party. The pressure grows against Griffin and Dowson it appears?

 
The wheels certainly seem to be coming off the BNP bandwagon, by the looks of things. Impending financial collapse, infighting, rival factions developing, all manner of different accusations being sprinkled around like confetti things don't look like getting any better in either the short or the long term.

I can't say I'm the slightest bit surprised about the financial problems that the BNP seems to be facing, nor that they seem to be having difficulty filing proper accounts and filing them on time. It has been suggested to me, more than once, that not only has Griffin been increasingly running the BNP as though it's his own personal fiefdom, he's also been repeatedly accused of using BNP party funds to finance a variety of personal ventures which, if true, would be extremely damaging if the finer details were to be made public.

E2A:

It seems that the leadership challenge has collapsed as no challenger could obtain enough supporters to force a vote (although the party constitution being heavily weighted in Griffin's favour, coupled with the number of anti-Griffin members who have been either suspended or expelled recently) doesn't make this that surprising.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10929903

That said, if I were Griffin, I wouldn't be thinking that I was out of the woods yet, by any means. If the reports about the degree of internal infighting and the state of BNP finances are accurate, then the BNP may not yet be dead in the water, but it's days might well be numbered. The latest financial appeal from Griffin to BNP members and supporters has him begging them to donate as little as 50 pence which, coupled with the party's seemingly desperate money problems, suggests that the BNP is indeed pretty desperate for money.
 
Bakunin said:
The wheels certainly seem to be coming off the BNP bandwagon, by the looks of things. Impending financial collapse, infighting, rival factions developing, all manner of different accusations being sprinkled around like confetti things don't look like getting any better in either the short or the long term.

I can't say I'm the slightest bit surprised about the financial problems that the BNP seems to be facing, nor that they seem to be having difficulty filing proper accounts and filing them on time. It has been suggested to me, more than once, that not only has Griffin been increasingly running the BNP as though it's his own personal fiefdom, he's also been repeatedly accused of using BNP party funds to finance a variety of personal ventures which, if true, would be extremely damaging if the finer details were to be made public.

E2A:

It seems that the leadership challenge has collapsed as no challenger could obtain enough supporters to force a vote (although the party constitution being heavily weighted in Griffin's favour, coupled with the number of anti-Griffin members who have been either suspended or expelled recently) doesn't make this that surprising.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10929903

That said, if I were Griffin, I wouldn't be thinking that I was out of the woods yet, by any means. If the reports about the degree of internal infighting and the state of BNP finances are accurate, then the BNP may not yet be dead in the water, but it's days might well be numbered. The latest financial appeal from Griffin to BNP members and supporters has him begging them to donate as little as 50 pence which, coupled with the party's seemingly desperate money problems, suggests that the BNP is indeed pretty desperate for money.
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How may times are we going to read that the wheels are falling off the BNP bandwagon due to internal leadership challenges and finance? It's wheeled out , mainly in the absence of any suggested political alternative, as the old BNP will someday be returning to the streets cobblers that was the standard chestnut a couple of years ago.

The fact that the challengers vote was so derisory says quite a bit about where the members loyalties actually are. The problem the BNP face is exactly the same as other oppositional parties and that is that Labour should sweep up the opposition to the Con Dems.
 
The39thStep said:
How may times are we going to read that the wheels are falling off the BNP bandwagon due to internal leadership challenges and finance? It's wheeled out , mainly in the absence of any suggested political alternative, as the old BNP will someday be returning to the streets cobblers that was the standard chestnut a couple of years ago.

The fact that the challengers vote was so derisory says quite a bit about where the members loyalties actually are. The problem the BNP face is exactly the same as other oppositional parties and that is that Labour should sweep up the opposition to the Con Dems.
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i don't get the impression that you have been following the leadership challenge story with the assiduity you imply. anyone who knows anything about the bnp constitution knows precisely how difficult it is to challenge nick griffin, let alone defeat him. there's an article in the current searchlight which highlights the mountain butler needed to climb. and it's not as though butler or the other candidates had the advantage nick griffin did of having access to the membership list. to turn your bit about support on its head, a total of 1236 out of the 4,200 possible nominators expressed a preference for one of the candidates: which means that more than 75% of those eligible chose not to support griffin.

the issues for the bnp are how they deal with the internal issues facing them, whether butler's returned to favour or whether he and another load of disillusioned activists leave, and how they deal with the aftermath of griffin describing barking & dagenham - and london - as a lost cause, after national call-outs from january to may to garner support in barking. while the bnp's vote may have held up in barking, the way griffin faced defeat will doubtless leave a sour taste in the mouths of many of the bnp members who turned out on a number of weekends to support him, only to find that - frankly - it was all a waste of time. surely barking being a lost cause would have been clear before setting foot in the borough, if that was the case, and the amount of time, energy and money (not to mention lies, in terms of jeffrey marshall of myrdle street, e1, saying he lived in barking & dagenham, and the suspicious number of people who claimed to live in richard barnbrook's house). griffin's reputation for infallibility is, i submit, rather dented by the fiasco.

it may be premature to write off the bnp because of leadership challenges, due to the hurdles i've alluded to. it is less premature to suggest that their financial position is not going to impact on their future performance. the amount of money shelled out by the party for the stupid marmite advert, and the continuing claims that the party is in hock to mr dowson: these are not signs of a party in rude financial health. the bnp will be with us for some time to come, but i think that if they couldn't crack it when there was the best part of a perfect storm in their favour indicate that less favourable times will see their attractiveness dwindle. i think they had their chance and they fluffed it, but the death of the bnp will be both lingering and bitter.
 
Pickman's model said:
i don't get the impression that you have been following the leadership challenge story with the assiduity you imply. anyone who knows anything about the bnp constitution knows precisely how difficult it is to challenge nick griffin, let alone defeat him. there's an article in the current searchlight which highlights the mountain butler needed to climb. and it's not as though butler or the other candidates had the advantage nick griffin did of having access to the membership list. to turn your bit about support on its head, a total of 1236 out of the 4,200 possible nominators expressed a preference for one of the candidates: which means that more than 75% of those eligible chose not to support griffin.

the issues for the bnp are how they deal with the internal issues facing them, whether butler's returned to favour or whether he and another load of disillusioned activists leave, and how they deal with the aftermath of griffin describing barking & dagenham - and london - as a lost cause, after national call-outs from january to may to garner support in barking. while the bnp's vote may have held up in barking, the way griffin faced defeat will doubtless leave a sour taste in the mouths of many of the bnp members who turned out on a number of weekends to support him, only to find that - frankly - it was all a waste of time. surely barking being a lost cause would have been clear before setting foot in the borough, if that was the case, and the amount of time, energy and money (not to mention lies, in terms of jeffrey marshall of myrdle street, e1, saying he lived in barking & dagenham, and the suspicious number of people who claimed to live in richard barnbrook's house). griffin's reputation for infallibility is, i submit, rather dented by the fiasco.

it may be premature to write off the bnp because of leadership challenges, due to the hurdles i've alluded to. it is less premature to suggest that their financial position is not going to impact on their future performance. the amount of money shelled out by the party for the stupid marmite advert, and the continuing claims that the party is in hock to mr dowson: these are not signs of a party in rude financial health. the bnp will be with us for some time to come, but i think that if they couldn't crack it when there was the best part of a perfect storm in their favour indicate that less favourable times will see their attractiveness dwindle. i think they had their chance and they fluffed it, but the death of the bnp will be both lingering and bitter.
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Sorry if i didn't give you the right impression.

Where I would disagree totally with you is how you start your second paragraph, your emphasis is that the issues for the BNP are somehow internal. they are not , the real issues are extrenal and how the BNP make political headway against Labour as the opposition to the Con Dems. The election showed that Labour effectively swallowed up opposition to the Tories and in the case of Barking it was not just national Searchlight and UAF mobilisations but Labour government funding via Connecting Communities and Preventing Violent Extremism that asissted this. The Labour vote was a lot stronger than forcast .

I am not sure that any party let alone a small mainstream one is in good financial health and yes I agree that finances can restrict political achievement . I aslo agree with you ,in contrast to other posters here who compared the BNP with the NF in 1979, that any death of the BNP is likely to be lingering and bitter. However whilst BNP success may not be as spectacular as they were within the perfect storm that the storm is still with us and with the recession likely to get worse. Who will fare better as an alternative to labour, the BNP or the left and the anarchists?
 
The39thStep said:
A) The problem the BNP face is exactly the same as other oppositional parties and that is that Labour should sweep up the opposition to the Con Dems.
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The39thStep said:
B) Who will fare better as an alternative to labour, the BNP or the left and the anarchists?
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A) Janus face! Earlier there was a spat cos I said the BNP vote will decline, now you are agreeing with me!!
B) The left and the anarchists should do better than the BNP imho. Because there are far more able people on the left and anarchists who simply disengaged, they should come out of the woodwork now (and there are already signs of this). The BNP simply haven't got ANY able activists and they have nothing to say about large economic issues that can be of use to the working class, beyond the racist rhetoric which is going to have increasingly diminishing returns.
 
The39thStep said:
Sorry if i didn't give you the right impression.

Where I would disagree totally with you is how you start your second paragraph, your emphasis is that the issues for the BNP are somehow internal. they are not , the real issues are extrenal and how the BNP make political headway against Labour as the opposition to the Con Dems. The election showed that Labour effectively swallowed up opposition to the Tories and in the case of Barking it was not just national Searchlight and UAF mobilisations but Labour government funding via Connecting Communities and Preventing Violent Extremism that asissted this. The Labour vote was a lot stronger than forcast .

I am not sure that any party let alone a small mainstream one is in good financial health and yes I agree that finances can restrict political achievement . I aslo agree with you ,in contrast to other posters here who compared the BNP with the NF in 1979, that any death of the BNP is likely to be lingering and bitter. However whilst BNP success may not be as spectacular as they were within the perfect storm that the storm is still with us and with the recession likely to get worse. Who will fare better as an alternative to labour, the BNP or the left and the anarchists?
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for the bnp to go forwards they have to address a range of internal issues, some of which i mentioned. the bnp can't make political headway until there is greater unity restored to the party, which given the bnp's constitution is likely to be once some dissidents have left.
 
Griffin tells his audience that '700 infested aids Africans are about to enter Rotherham' and a 'Muslin drugs Jihad is taking place here.

 
Some interesting things from that vid: the emphasis on social housing, work, anti-cuts and anti-yuppies. I wonder if he'd take that line in areas of the BNP's 'other vote' - the traditional little englander middle class supporters. There's the wedge stuff for people to be working on.

On the leadership and internal stuff - appears as if he's publicly taking a very soft line. I don't think Butler is the type to go to (total) war and destroy the last 10 years work either. The dissenters have no place else to go, nowhere serious anyway - either back to the headbnagers (might end up inside) or to th far right of the tories (far more likely, but they generally hate them as much as they hate everyone) - Griffin knows that, that they've nowhere to bolt off to, and he only needs sit tight for this to pass. It's the lesson from the tiny 'splits' (if you can call them that) from the last 5 years.

'Narcotics jihad' :D
 
Pickman's model said:
for the bnp to go forwards they have to address a range of internal issues, some of which i mentioned. the bnp can't make political headway until there is greater unity restored to the party, which given the bnp's constitution is likely to be once some dissidents have left.
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Why take the tradition of the cobweb and anarchist left of focussing on internal issues especially things like the constitution? Reminds me of some weights and measures commitee and obsessed with process and rules. Surely its political activity that impacts on internal structures that creates the dynamic for change , and any changes internally then contribute to further successful political activity.

I don't think I have ever come across a political organisation failing because its constitution was wrong , its normally ideas.

The clip from Griffin at Tameside is far more informative and as has been commented where do these dissidents go? The NF isn't really a viable or secure organisation and the EDL apart from being a useful diversion to BNP recruitment is heading into a dead end.
 
The same branch have been leafleting over in our town centre for four weeks on the trot. Period of repositioning and be interesting to see where the super activist branches emerge
 
The39thStep said:
Why take the tradition of the cobweb and anarchist left of focussing on internal issues especially things like the constitution? Reminds me of some weights and measures commitee and obsessed with process and rules. Surely its political activity that impacts on internal structures that creates the dynamic for change , and any changes internally then contribute to further successful political activity.

I don't think I have ever come across a political organisation failing because its constitution was wrong , its normally ideas.

The clip from Griffin at Tameside is far more informative and as has been commented where do these dissidents go? The NF isn't really a viable or secure organisation and the EDL apart from being a useful diversion to BNP recruitment is heading into a dead end.
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i would agree with you about most parties' constitutions. however, the bnp constitution has for some time been designed with the purpose in mind of nick griffin not suffering a coup. indeed, one of the points made by butler was that the constitution had been amended to strengthen griffin's position during the recent litigation with the equalities commission.

i think that the question of the party's internal organisation is one which will run and run until griffin departs or someone manages to oust him. it's an issue which has resonance for members who cannot be advanced unless griffin says so. he can appoint and dismiss national officers. the advisory council has no teeth. if someone joins and does good work, there is no means for them to advance past the (relatively) local stage before they need griffin's approval to go further. for the majority of members, and activists, this is probably not a problem. for the people who will be the bnp's leadership in the future, however, it is. do the dissidents leave or do they hold their breath waiting for griffin? i think that the constitution sets quite clear bounds to the party's ability to perpetuate itself, as prospective leadership candidates are removed from positions of influence on griffin's say-so.
 
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