Griffin and BNP strategy

[elbows]

Your link doesnt seem to be working. Try this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm

 

[Melinda]

Cheers elbows, dont know what happened there.

 

[Stay Beautiful]

No one talking about this? I did a search...

The Romford campaign took off today!

Bob Bailey got into it with some Asian boys.

Gordon Brown should take note.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...nd/8663681.stm

These boys are gonna be heros!

'There is more of us than there is you, mate'.... **spittle lands on face**

 

[Corax]

I said many many pages back than IMO the BNP are a joke party and no real threat. The usual suspects countered that I wasn't living in the real world, or some such to that effect.

Events since then have only served to reinforce that opinion. I still don't believe the BNP will achieve any progress whatsoever. Even if they get more votes, I think the higher turnout will swamp them.

We'll see tomorrow morning I suppose.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I said many many pages back than IMO the BNP are a joke party and no real threat. The usual suspects countered that I wasn't living in the real world, or some such to that effect.

Events since then have only served to reinforce that opinion. I still don't believe the BNP will achieve any progress whatsoever. Even if they get more votes, I think the higher turnout will swamp them.

We'll see tomorrow morning I suppose.

You're going to take some serious ribbage if you're wrong, though.

 

[Corax]

You're going to take some serious ribbage if you're wrong, though.

If I gave a toss (about opinion here, not the threat), that would be a problem.

I'd also see a certain irony in anti-fash gloating about fash progress, iyswim.

 

[TremulousTetra]

No one talking about this? I did a search...

The Romford campaign took off today!

Bob Bailey got into it with some Asian boys.

Gordon Brown should take note.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...nd/8663681.stm

These boys are gonna be heros!

tis here
http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/pa... Stoke&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=05/05/10

 

[The Black Hand]

Important results here - Sunderland BNP local collapse.

From being a BNP flagship area - standing full slates year after year for most of the decade. The BNP ONLY managed to stand candidates in less than half of the wards - 12 out of 25 seats. Results;
http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/CHttpHa...hx?id=8511&p=0

I will crunch the numbers but their vote will have fallen by over half

 

[Corax]

I can't believe the BNP have made taken up a central role in national politics now.

Oh wait, they haven't.

 

[butchersapron]

No one said that they would you wounded dick. Still they've just put in the best ever general election performance by a far-right party in history, following on from the the best ever european performances, the best ever local performances and so on. Grow up and read what people have been actually arguing not this sulking idiocy.

 

[audiotech]

Nicked from elsewhere.

A staggering fascist advance of 2% in 31 years.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If I gave a toss (about opinion here, not the threat), that would be a problem.

I'd also see a certain irony in anti-fash gloating about fash progress, iyswim.

It wouldn't be gloating, it'd be "I told you so!".

 

[ViolentPanda]

No one said that they would you wounded dick. Still they've just put in the best ever general election performance by a far-right party in history, following on from the the best ever european performances, the best ever local performances and so on. Grow up and read what people have been actually arguing not this sulking idiocy.

They've certainly buried Mosley's legacy in a way the NF and the Tyndall-era BNP were never able to.

 

[TremulousTetra]

They've certainly buried Mosley's legacy in a way the NF and the Tyndall-era BNP were never able to.

So what should those opposed to fascism do about it?

 

[TremulousTetra]

No one said that they would you wounded dick. Still they've just put in the best ever general election performance by a far-right party in history, following on from the the best ever european performances, the best ever local performances and so on. Grow up and read what people have been actually arguing not this sulking idiocy.

So what should those opposed to fascism do about it?

 

[Proper Tidy]

So what should those opposed to fascism do about it?

Perhaps building in communities and engaging with working class voters on working class issues might be a start, as opposed to saying Nazi a lot and flitting around with pop concerts.

 

[Random]

So what should those opposed to fascism do about it?

That's what you like about the SWP, isn't it, Rmp? They're always ready to tell you what you should do.

 

[TremulousTetra]

That's what you like about the SWP, isn't it, Rmp? They're always ready to tell you what you should do.

Can always rely on you to be non-political and ten years out of date.

 

[Random]

Can always rely on you to be non-political and ten years out of date.

what happened ten years ago?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Perhaps building in communities and engaging with working class voters on working class issues might be a start

That's a given of what socialist's should do in general, but not an answer specific questions as to what should those opposed to fascism, but not necessarily opposed to capitalism, do about the fascsist's now?

 

[TremulousTetra]

what happened ten years ago?

God dickwad, I left, stopped reading all the publications, and have an insignificant amount of contact with. You probably know more about what they "tell people to think" than I do.

 

[Proper Tidy]

That's a given of what socialist's should do in general, but not an answer specific questions as to what should those opposed to fascism, but not necessarily opposed to capitalism, do about the fascsist's now?

The same thing. I didn't mention anti-capitalism. If people want to stop the growth of the far right then they have to engage with why people are turning to the far right and offer an alternative. Most of all, they have to be seen to be based in communities and part of communities, not as part time concert promoters and placard wavers.

 

[Random]

God dickwad, I left, stopped reading all the publications, and have an insignificant amount of contact with. You probably know more about what they "tell people to think" than I do.

So you stopped reading all the publications, but you listen to endless soundfiles of their leadership giving speeches instead?

I'm sure I remember you being an SWP member as recently as just a few years ago. But if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion, because you always defend them on here then I apologise for the implication that you are a member.

 

[TremulousTetra]

the truth? you can't handle the truth.

Well I'll be safe reading your post's then.

 

[Random]

The same thing. I didn't mention anti-capitalism. If people want to stop the growth of the far right then they have to engage with why people are turning to the far right and offer an alternative. Most of all, they have to be seen to be based in communities and part of communities, not as part time concert promoters and placard wavers.

Do you think, then that it's possible for a movement that is not anticapitalist to actually stop the BNP?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Do you think, then that it's possible for a movement that is not anticapitalist to actually stop the BNP?

Yes, hypothetically. The BNP have gained their support largely from disaffected former Old Labour voters; and Labour were never an 'anti-capitalist' party.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So you stopped reading all the publications, but you listen to endless soundfiles of their leadership giving speeches instead?

I'm sure I remember you being an SWP member as recently as just a few years ago. But if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion, because you always defend them on here then I apologise for the implication that you are a member.

I used to listen to quite a lot when I was a member, but don't listen to endless soundfile's anymore. Also I don't defend them. If you ever actually read what I say, I regularly caveat it with something like this is a strawman arguement. I have also regularly said "I supported the SWP because they were the least worst option", hardly a glowing indictment. I am perfectly happy for people to attack the real SWP, the truth is the only thing I'm interested in,,,, now. And even that, is in a non-partisan/political, philosophic kind of way. But having said all that, of course my 'truth' is coloured by my experiences, as is yours.

No need to apologise though, being thought to be an SWP member is is less offensive than being thought to be one of the tiny milieu of non-political 'anarchist' and fellow travellers on U75.

 

[Random]

I am perfectly happy for people to attack the real SWP, the truth is the only thing I'm interested in,,,, now.

But your view of what the 'real SWP' is, is fairly close to what the SWP leadership say it is. Hence my belief that you use SWP policy as a kind of intellectual crutch.

 

[TremulousTetra]

The same thing. I didn't mention anti-capitalism. If people want to stop the growth of the far right then they have to engage with why people are turning to the far right
[edited]
Most of all, they have to be seen to be based in communities and part of communities, not as part time concert promoters and placard wavers.

< absolutely agree.

and offer an alternative.

But isn't what produces the far right, the fascists, capitalism? So the only real alternative is............?

You see there are many progressive people who are not united about what an alternative could be, but they are united in their opposition to fascism. What do we say to them? Ignore them?

Do you think, then that it's possible for a movement that is not anticapitalist to actually stop the BNP?

Yes, hypothetically. The BNP have gained their support largely from disaffected former Old Labour voters; and Labour were never an 'anti-capitalist' party.

So so what is your 'alternative', that you would offer the disaffected 'labour' voters, who now vote for the fascsist's? Reformism MK2?

 

[Proper Tidy]

< absolutely agree. But isn't what produces the far right, the fascists, capitalism? So the only real alternative is............?

You see there are many progressive people who are not united about what an alternative could be, but they are united in their opposition to fascism. What do we say to them? Ignore them?



So so what is your 'alternative', that you would offer the disaffected 'labour' voters, who now vote for the fascsist's? Reformism MK2?

I'm interested in building an electoral movement that is anti-capitalist and will try to address the lack of working class political representation. However, as you observe, not all people who are anti-racist are anti-capitalist, Fine. These people should still look to build in communities and offer a political challenge if they are serious about challenging the far right because that is the only way it will be done. That I may choose to pursue building a political alternative that advocates a world beyond capitalism is neither here nor there in this regard.

That capitalism causes racism, nationalism etc is irrelevant as to whether people will choose to vote BNP or AN Other party that they feel is at least representing their interests.

I can see the UAF/SWP logic going on in your post, which is that UAF must be abroad alliance against fascism yadda yadda - to what end? What has this achieved? UAF takes up a lot of the energy and activity of (particularly) young activists with little end product.