existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I can well appreciate why you are so worried about Market Lentilism being discredited. It doesn't seem to be that hard to do...
Gender idealism?
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InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
here's an opportunity to log out of the site and forget your password before your transphobia and misogyny becomes a very serious problem for you ...
did you not take the hint from Editor's last post in the thread ?
PTK
Paul Kegan
If transwomen are women, and some women can be described as “tomboys”, then some transwomen could be described as “tomboys”, but it has been stated that this term can only be applied to cis women. Someone who asserts that only cis women can be “tomboys” is implying that transwomen are not women. So it turns out that a certain person is transphobic after all.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
i'm not trans, so open to the thoughts of those who are, but i'm sure that in one of the (many) previous discussions on here, it has been suggested that the gatekeeping in the current system will not let people through who don't meet enough stereotypes in their transition process.
maybe some trans people do try too hard at some point at least.
some people are content with 'non binary'
i'm not convinced that trans people (whether they consider themselves 'trans rights activists' or not) are within a single organised group / party so they may not all have identical viewpoints.
again
krtek a houby
Against all gods
Is this the man who wrecked the buffet?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Its so tiring isnt it?! That particularly cishet men (sorry to my homies here but you'll understand this) just always think they're doing this 'gotcha!' thing as part of their debating society schtick. And it doesnt matter how much anyone tries to educate, how much stuff is out there to read that could inform opinion better, how much evidence can be quoted to dispel badly made assertions, it just carries on regardless, seizing on little things here and there. And we've been doing this shit for over ten years on Urban, such as Why do some feminists hate transgender people? and countless knows how many disingenuous threads since.
And yet still people seriously think that debate is being shutdown? When mainstream media and press, majority political landscape, and social media, is almost completely dominated by 'gender critical' and anti-trans/queer discourse and has been for a few years now, it would be really refreshing if some could stop with the mental gymnastics on this subject, seriously.
And yet still people seriously think that debate is being shutdown? When mainstream media and press, majority political landscape, and social media, is almost completely dominated by 'gender critical' and anti-trans/queer discourse and has been for a few years now, it would be really refreshing if some could stop with the mental gymnastics on this subject, seriously.
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8ball
Decolonise colons!
Totes agree with this, going by the v small number of trans people I know.
(obv there may be some people I know who are trans but I don’t know they are trans).
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Yeah. Yesterday I got called a "gender abolitionist ML tankie" for exposing the liberal opportunists (right opportunism) because they were long before me, offended by the word "dude" that they had to do a mandatory check on who is fine with the word "dude", thereby dividing the people based on who is fine being called a dude and who isn't. Yammering about "gender-neutral usage and masculine usage" as they went on. Leftism in the West is an infantile disorder that was correctly predicted to happen.
krtek a houby
Against all gods
According to you
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I'm really not sure it is. Decades of feminism are sort of undone if we get called a name every time we are perceived to do masculine things. I'm not sure how helpful labels are tbh unless a person chooses their label.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I never understood the label 'tomboy' even when I was younger, always seemed so clunky and old fashioned then, but I know women (cis and trans) who seem to be comfortable with it.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I would say it definitely prevented me from playing football as a child. Which is a shame because I think I might have liked football.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
The term 'Tomboy' was used in a shaming way when i was a kid towards any girl who was sporty, or preferred wearing trousers, or didn't want to play with dolls all the time. It was pretty toxic.
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Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
That's also my experience. Probably not as shaming as its counterpart (Which I suppose is cissy or something. Or later 'gay' which I used to lose my absolute shit over whenever any of the kids said it, and probably still would) but it was definitely a label that you didn't want at the time.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
A bit like "sissy" for boys...
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
And with that no answer came, so I refer people back to my post above. I mean, why not construct an argument if you're going to do it, not just that sort of blunt assertion?
Reasons for socially and medically transitioning is multi-faceted, trans and queer people are diverse, and in the past, gender clinics didnt help by placing rigid gendered expectation onto those seeking transition too ('meet what we're asking you to so we can help you' - I know two dyke trans women who had a tough time with their clinical psych years ago for how they 'presented' despite 'passing', such was the gatekeeping).
Again, there'll be discussions here around all of this. Am I the only one who gets frustrated at relative newbs who don't even search through old threads and these same old things seem to get re-hashed again and again? Praps I'm just fatigued of this place.
Reasons for socially and medically transitioning is multi-faceted, trans and queer people are diverse, and in the past, gender clinics didnt help by placing rigid gendered expectation onto those seeking transition too ('meet what we're asking you to so we can help you' - I know two dyke trans women who had a tough time with their clinical psych years ago for how they 'presented' despite 'passing', such was the gatekeeping).
Again, there'll be discussions here around all of this. Am I the only one who gets frustrated at relative newbs who don't even search through old threads and these same old things seem to get re-hashed again and again? Praps I'm just fatigued of this place.
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
Great points, but I think rehashing things again and again is just part of the nature of discussion forums. Unfortunately points have to be remade over and over, and that doesn't just apply to this issue.
The lack of empathy from some posters I do sometimes find pretty shocking, but there are much worse corners of the internet out there for that.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Well, I'm not surprised.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
and words never change their meaning ? or aren;t 'reclaimed' by those they were used against ?
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Do those words ever change their meaning? You use them a hell of a lot.
I thought you said you didn't get all your information about trans people from terfs? I don't think I've ever heard a trans person say a child is trans because they like certain things, and certainly no activist groups have that position. I have repeatedly heard gender critical people claim that is what trans activists think though.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The people making these claims were pro-trans. They accepted that their children were trans.
Such comments are in line with the claim that gender is innate.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
You only used the word 'revisionist' once in this post, so I can no longer take you seriously.
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
Who were these people and can you provide a link please?
Of course some trans people, and gay people come to that, can identify childhood experiences around play as one of the first indicators that they were 'different'. It also might be something a parent would notice, in retrospect. Those observations are not the same thing as suggesting that all children who play in a way not along the lines of what is socially expected for their gender are trans.
But anyway please tell us who exactly is saying this, as you keep asserting.
Is that all they said, or were they describing one aspect of a pattern of behaviour?
The idea that humans may possess some kind of innate gender/sex identity came from research into intersex kids and those were raised as one sex, usually due to a genital ambiguity which was surgically 'fixed', and then later rejected it.
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