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Gaza under attack yet again.

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killer b said:
I can't say that poll looks particularly scientific tbh.
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Exactly. From that article
The poll was conducted by pollster Mina Tzemach among 504 respondents, a representative sample of the Jewish Israeli adult population. It was sponsored by strategist Roni Rimon, who once worked with Likud and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, but who insisted he took it at his own initiative
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.

Rimon "insisted he took it at his own initiative". So that makes it okay?
 
John Kerry is an alien, apparently. I especially like the way the article ends (emphasis added):

Some of this may be payback for what has been seen in Israeli eyes as previous diplomatic gaffes committed by Mr Kerry – such as warning that Israel would face a future campaign of de-legitimisation or evolve into an apartheid state if it failed to make peace with the Palestinians.

But the barely-concealed disdain it betrays hardly bodes well for his prospects of rescuing Gaza from the mire of bloodshed into which it has sunk.
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:facepalm:
 
Apologies if this has already been posted. My eyes lighted upon this paragraph.
The ill-will felt towards the Israeli left could be gaged well among the group of right-wing protesters that the police corralled in a separate part of the plaza. They continually shouted "Death to the leftists" and expressed hope that "a rocket from Gaza" would kill them. In addition they merrily sang "Why is there no school in Gaza? Because no more kids are left." Some protesters tried to convince this group to stop singing these songs as they were detrimental to the message of support for the IDF that they were trying to promote, but to no avail.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.607311
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weltweit said:
If I am misstating the Hamas charter then I am not alone. Many think it calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of all jews. In my looking at various translations of it, I can't find reference to the destruction of Zionism:

Hamas Covenant (Wikipedia)
The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[2] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[3][4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

Many of them start with a quote:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Also: http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.../carryover/documents/charter.html?chocaid=397

eta: The BBC on Hamas:
Profile: Hamas Palestinian movement
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13331522
Under the group's charter, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel.
BBC also links to: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

I looked at a couple more translations searching for Zion and Israel and did not find more.

Do you recommend a particular translation of the Hamas Charter?
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I'd start with recommending that you find a translation that isn't derived from the MEMRI translation, which has been revealed as a "put-up job" (i.e. it's been translated in a politically-partisan pro-Israel way) over several years (MEMRI being the same people who "mis-translated" some of the rhetoric of Ahmadinedjad in a way that helped the causes of the US and the state of Israel).
Then I'd recommend that you read any version of the charter in the context of the time and events taking place when it was written.

I can't recommend a specific version, as I relied on having it personally-translated from Arabic to English by a friend, and can't find the original document, but the "interpretations" have been a matter of public scrutiny for years.
 
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I was trying the other day to answer the self-posed question, "what exactly is Hamas"? so I found this paper from 2007 by "Menachem Klein", 'Hamas in Power'.

The abstract says:

This article challenges the static approach to Hamas as a simple fundamentalist
organization by analyzing its political documents.It shows that H amas' Islamist
ideology has not prevented i t from moving f rom f undamentalism to radicalism.
Hamas has innovated ways of allowing its leaders to declare or acquiesce in
political p ositions that c ontradict i ts f undamentalisct reed.H amas a ccomplished
this change in the course of a domestic d ebate. The international b oycott o f its
government d id not create the change- Hamas b egan to talk in two voices before
winning the 2006 elections
 
D'wards said:
Not sure if its been covered on the thread before, but why do people think the Israel issue gets so much attention compared to, say, Syria or what Isis are up to in Iraq?

I sit next to a Pakistani muslim woman at work and whilst she agrees its a dire situation in Gaza, she thinks that problems in the aforementioned countries dwarf Gaza, and world attention is diverted from the absolute hell of Syria and northern Iraq, where the death tolls alone are staggering, let alone the child murder and torture.
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In a nutshell, I'd say that the issue with those other problems is that they're transient in comparison to Palestine. Syria is an issue that's 3 years old, Iraq 11 years old. Palestine as an issue is 67 years old (if you don't include the British oppression of Palestinian Arabs under the Mandate). If we can't solve such an old problem, what's the hope of solving the newer ones, especially when Palestine is used as a justification for violence by some of the Iraqi and Syrian ideologues, and the ragbag of nutbars and psychos from the ummah who are participating in the Syrian and Iraqi vioolence.
 
I think sometimes anti-Semitism is a factor with SOME people, although on the demos I've been on in the last few days I didn't see any. I don't think that anti-semites necessarily give a shit about the Palestinians.

I think another big factor is that a lot of people in the west and the Islamic world have been obsessed with that region for centuries and especially Jerusalem.

And of course the fact that a sophisticated military is using experimental high-tech weaponry on children :mad:
 
Hamas will become a sideshow for Israel if Isis get to its borders, which is probably only a matter of time.
I can even foresee a time when Israel may get into bed with Hizbollah to fight them, such is the danger to both from the crazed adherents of a myth making and ruthless power grab cloaked in religious garb
Israel has few true allies, seemingly on those who are in bed with the Yanks at the mo
Got to quote Lowell George
"Same Dudes that you used on the way up
You might meet up
On the way down"
The longer Israel maintains its position as a militarized and racist state, the harder the fall when the balance of power shifts
 
ViolentPanda said:
In a nutshell, I'd say that the issue with those other problems is that they're transient in comparison to Palestine. Syria is an issue that's 3 years old, Iraq 11 years old. Palestine as an issue is 67 years old (if you don't include the British oppression of Palestinian Arabs under the Mandate). If we can't solve such an old problem, what's the hope of solving the newer ones, especially when Palestine is used as a justification for violence by some of the Iraqi and Syrian ideologues, and the ragbag of nutbars and psychos from the ummah who are participating in the Syrian and Iraqi vioolence.
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Another one is the well grounded and decades old networks that groups like the PSC have built on the left/unions and their on-the-ground embededness in them. How on earth could an anti-ISIS (or anything else really) campaign compare?
 
"@jncatron
An extremely loud, close blast, which followed two smaller ones, just shattered windows at #Gaza's al-Shifa hospital."

"@MohammedAShaban
Al-Shifa hospital is being targeted by Israeli navy !! WTF"

"@InassSafadi
A number of martyrs and injuries reported due of targeting the Outpatient departments of Al-Shiafa hospital"

"@sheikhNB
Local media say the Israeli air strikes just now hit the outpatient clinics of #Gaza's main Shifa hospital, reports deaths and injuries"
 
"@OccPalGaza
I was next to Shifa hospital at grocery store when area was bombed.Saw bloodied children being carried to hospital-God help us! #Gaza 5.20pm"

"@DrBasselAbuward
Al-Shifa Hospital the place i am working in is being attacked now! too many injuries and deaths!!"

‏"@Belalmd12
Breaking: a second airstrike in Nasser street (not far away from Shifa) killes AT LEAST 7 children!"

Apparently they were playing in a park. FFS :(

"‏@freegazaorg
More than 50 children were playing in a park west of #Gaza when the F16s targeted them."
 
Mr.Bishie said:
"@OccPalGaza
I was next to Shifa hospital at grocery store when area was bombed.Saw bloodied children being carried to hospital-God help us! #Gaza 5.20pm"

"@DrBasselAbuward
Al-Shifa Hospital the place i am working in is being attacked now! too many injuries and deaths!!"

‏"@Belalmd12
Breaking: a second airstrike in Nasser street (not far away from Shifa) killes AT LEAST 7 children!"

Apparently they were playing in a park. FFS :(

"‏@freegazaorg
More than 50 children were playing in a park west of #Gaza when the F16s targeted them."
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The same hospital Snow refers to in the report above. :(
 
Update: 10 kids killed & 40 injured - targetted by Israeli F16 whilst playing in childrens playground in Shaati camp.

This can't be allowed to fucking continue, ffs
 
An the inevitable bullshit that follows, just like clockwork;

"@IDFSpokesperson
A short while ago, terrorists in Gaza fired rockets at Israel. 1 of them hit Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza. The other hit Al-Shati refugee camp."
 
ViolentPanda said:
In a nutshell, I'd say that the issue with those other problems is that they're transient in comparison to Palestine. Syria is an issue that's 3 years old, Iraq 11 years old. Palestine as an issue is 67 years old (if you don't include the British oppression of Palestinian Arabs under the Mandate). If we can't solve such an old problem, what's the hope of solving the newer ones, especially when Palestine is used as a justification for violence by some of the Iraqi and Syrian ideologues, and the ragbag of nutbars and psychos from the ummah who are participating in the Syrian and Iraqi vioolence.
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there's also the fact that our government - with my and your taxes - actively support and promote Israel and a pro-Israeli agenda. They dont - and we dont - actively contribute to ISIS or to the Islamists in Syria. And western demonstations against ISIS etc would do absolutely no good, and be seen as more evidence of how the whole west is corrupt and to be defeated.
 
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