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Gaza under attack yet again.

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Knotted said:
They turned on each other because Hamas are cunts and Fatah are worse and the latter performed a coup d'etat with Mossad and CIA backing. Both parties pursue their own goals usually at the expense of the Palestinian population. Fatah in particular are corrupt and wedded to the peace industry while enforcing Israel's occupation in Areas A & B in the West Bank. But they are both rational actors making calculated moves.
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fatah would have thrown Hamas people off the roof just as quickly. That tactic had nothing to do with Islamism . It was just violence within a political power struggle, and payback for some of the torture inflicted within those security buildings.
 
Knotted said:
They turned on each other because Hamas are cunts and Fatah are worse and the latter performed a coup d'etat with Mossad and CIA backing. Both parties pursue their own goals usually at the expense of the Palestinian population. Fatah in particular are corrupt and wedded to the peace industry while enforcing Israel's occupation in Areas A & B in the West Bank. But they are both rational actors making calculated moves.

Edit: Sorry for snapping, it's just worth seeing Palestinians as humans with all the flaws that entails rather than animals who only know how to react.
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Because they are cunts
Careful analysis guy
"A Daniel come to Judgement" and no mistake
 
hipipol said:
Because they are cunts
Careful analysis guy
"A Daniel come to Judgement" and no mistake
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It's not a difficult thing to understand. Two factions in a power struggle with two different strategies neither faction with any record of tolerating dissent try to set up their own little dictatorships.
 
Knotted said:
They turned on each other because Hamas are cunts and Fatah are worse and the latter performed a coup d'etat with Mossad and CIA backing. Both parties pursue their own goals usually at the expense of the Palestinian population. Fatah in particular are corrupt and wedded to the peace industry while enforcing Israel's occupation in Areas A & B in the West Bank. But they are both rational actors making calculated moves.

Edit: Sorry for snapping, it's just worth seeing Palestinians as humans with all the flaws that entails rather than animals who only know how to react.
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Do fuck off and learn about this stuff before spouting your ill-informed dogshit over the Internet.
 
treelover said:
These are the really dodgy fundamentalist sect who the left always seem to highlight as in opposition to Zionism, etc, read about them, they are quite unsavoury in their beliefs.
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Can you provide a link please? I'm tired, just finished work and can't be arsed to look.
 
treelover said:
Its horrendous what is happening in Gaza and Israel should be condemned, but Hamas's rockets are also sent with intent to kill and if they had bigger and more powerful rockets they would send them, its not a symmetric war but do you think Hamas wouldn't want to destroy Israel?
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seriously, there is no fucking equivalence. To try and create one is obscene to read . Palestinian rockets pretty much dont kill anyone. While they have a lethal potential if one falls on top of you, a veritable billion to one shot, theres no comparison to the targetting of the palestinian population by the zionist fascists. Who are specifically targetting civilians. Deliberately blowing up houses,mosques etc with precision weapons.
The argument you are making here is theres an equivalence between what is happening because of Hamas thoughts, as if they equate with Israeli actions.

theres an insinuation in your posts that collective punishment of the entire population is understandable to some degree due to Hamas objectives, as opposed to capabilities .

Youre also making it sound like the rocket tactic is a Hamas thing. Fatah , PFLP etc were doing precisely this in the 1970s from Lebanon . Al Aqsa martyrs and the likes will be lobbing these things too . It has nothing to do with any Islamic tendency of Hamas
 
Mr.Bishie said:
I hope that Israeli forces don't carry out what they did last time, & bomb these schools.
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given theyre packed wih palestinian civilians, not bombing them would make the job of terrorising the civilian population a lot more difficult . Theyve deliberately slaughtered lebanese women and children sheltering within UN military compounds. A gaza school is pretty much a cert, partcularly now theyve flattened a home for the disabled . Think they used WP the last time they bombed the schools.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
Isn't it possible to believe in the State of Israel and still condemn their treatment of the Palestinians?
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Not with any discernible logic. The massacre and disposession of Palestinians is done in the national interests of the zionist project. The reason there are millions of Palestinian refugees with no right of return is because Israel exists and cannot countenance their reurn to where they were cleansed from. The reason there are illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land is because Israel exists. The reason why they believe they are a master race tasked with subduing and dispossessing subhumans to create a greater living space is because Israel exists. It can only exist as an ubernationalist, militarist, expansionist apartheid state because it is what it is and can do no other.
Theres no nice way to dispossess and cleanse populations. To support the zionist states existence is to support its purpose. The removal of Palestinians to make way for jews.
 
Mr.Bishie said:
Their middle eastern website is not beamed to television sets at 6 o'clock is it?
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It is on their UK website, but how much of it was on TV I don't know. There has been reporting from inside Gaza on BBC TV news over the past week and some of it clearly showed the plight that the Palestinians find themselves in again, although I agree that the BBC should do a lot more. IMO they are trying too hard to be 'balanced' again even though it's clear to everyone who the aggressor is in this case.

But I don't see any reason why James Harding, and by extension the BBC, could be said to be biased because he said he 'believed in the State of Israel'. It is possible to condemn a given state's atrocities and illegal occupations etc, without wanting its complete removal.

Harding also said he was in favour of a Palestinian State by the way.
 
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Andrew Hertford said:
But I don't see any reason why James Harding, and by extension the BBC, could be said to be biased because he said he 'believed in the State of Israel'. it's possible to condemn a given state's atrocities without wanting its complete removal.

Harding also said he was in favour of a Palestinian State by the way.
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I do agree that you can condemn a state's actions without wanting its removal but why's Harding even opening his mouth? I couldn't give a toss who he supports and who he doesn't support. What I do care about is the organisation he runs reporting the facts on the ground as they occur. They're not doing that as they're portraying it as an even fight and ignoring the fact that Israel are the aggressors and that Israel have broken and continue to break international law.
 
Casually Red said:
has anyone even been killed by one ? I think theres been 2 Israelis injured in total . Theres probably been more Israelis injured slicing pizzas in the past week

Israeli towns are facing a bit of intermittent disruption every now and then . The rockets are the only response available to the oppressed that have any reach .
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If the rockets were in any way effective Gaza would be a smoking ruin completely by now. Given how much of a bloodthirsty zealot the Israeli government already is, an actual real attack would be the beginning of armageddon.
 
The human rights report commissioned for the Arab League authored by John Dugard and others on Operation Cast Lead has the following to say about the possibility of genocide. It makes for much more interesting reading than some of the embarrassing swivel eyed stuff we've seen on this thread. You let Israel off the hook if you start talking about absurd concepts of "slow moving genocide".


  1. Genocide
  2. Genocide is considered the “crime of crimes”. It has been singled out for special condemnation and opprobrium. The very suggestion that a state has committed genocide should therefore be approached with great care. Nevertheless the Committee believes that operation Cast Lead was of such gravity it was compelled to consider whether this crime had been committed.
  3. The Committee found Israel’s actions met the requirements for the actus reus of the crime of genocide contained in the Genocide Convention, in that the IDF was responsible for killing, exterminating and causing serious bodily harm to members of a group – the Palestinians of Gaza. However, the Committee had difficulty in determining whether the acts in question had been committed with a special intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnical or religious group, as required by the Genocide Convention. It rejected the argument that Israel had carried out operation Cast Lead in self-defence. However, it found the main reason for the operation was not to destroy a group, as required for the crime of genocide, but to engage in a
    vicious exercise of collective punishment designed either to compel the population to reject Hamas as the governing authority of Gaza or to subdue the population into a state of submission.
  4. The Committee found although operation Cast Lead had not been carried out by the IDF to destroy the Palestinians of Gaza as a group, individual soldiers may well have had such an intent and might therefore be prosecuted for this crime. This finding was based on the brutality of some of the killing and reports that some soldiers had acted under the influence of rabbis who had encouraged them to believe that the Holy Land should be cleansed of non-Jews.
    State Responsibility For Genocide
  5. Under international law a state may be held responsible for the commission of internationally wrongful acts that are attributable to it. Such responsibility may arise from customary international law or in terms of treaty obligations. It is clear internationally wrongful acts were committed by Israel in operation Cast Lead.
  6. Most human rights and international humanitarian law treaties do not confer jurisdiction on the International Court of Justice for the commission of internationally wrongful acts under such conventions. However, the Genocide Convention, in Article 9, confers such jurisdiction on the International Court of Justice in respect of the responsibility of a state for violation of the Convention, at the request of any other state party. It is not be necessary for the other state party to show that it has a national interest in the dispute as the prohibition on genocide is an obligation erga omnes.
  7. Proof of the commission of genocide is a prerequisite for bringing a claim under the Genocide Convention. It has already been shown that the Committee was not able to find that the state of Israel acting though the IDF had the necessary specific intent to destroy a group as required for the crime of genocide. On the other hand, there is a prospect that such a claim might succeed if it can be proved that individual members of the armed forces committed acts of genocide while they were acting under the direct control of the Government of Israel. Such a scenario would allow Israel to be held responsible under the Genocide Convention for failure to prevent or to punish genocide.
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  1. http://icahdusa.org/no-safe-place-report-of-the-independent-fact-finding-committee-on-gaza/
 
Mr.Bishie said:
This may explain the BBC bias -
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The very same words were also uttered by James Purnell the Director of Strategy and Digital at the BBC. He is also a member of Labour Friends of Israel which means that he can not deliver an unbiased news strategy. The BBC is a nightmare in its coverage of Israeli policy and actions.
 
I've been wondering for the past couple of days whether they were going to send the ground troops in while the rest of the world is watching the football.
 
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