Gaza under attack yet again.

[butchersapron]

Why the facepalm?

The stapling together of a quote with someone who didn't say it?

 

[uk benzo]

Islamic Jihad-affiliated Palestine TV reported that the ceasefire had been “interrupted” because an Israeli soldier had 'gone missing' - presumed kidnapped.

I've heard this also.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"@kelo3adi
IDF has called for all of #Rafah to evacuate. Where to? #Egypt crossing remains solidly closed."

 

[belboid]

"@kelo3adi
IDF has called for all of #Rafah to evacuate. Where to? #Egypt crossing remains solidly closed."

mass demonstrations needed in Egypt now

 

[SpookyFrank]

A friend of mine just learned that eight of his cousins were killed in Gaza last night. Most of his family is still there. I'd be in fucking shreds by now if I was in his position, but he's been out campaigning and fundraising from day one of this Israeli campaign.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Why the facepalm?

Harvesting organs?

 

[belboid]

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/press-release-challenging-the-siege-of-gaza/#.U9ttrqP5dLc

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Oh look apparently another fucking hospital has been targeted, how fucking quaint. My anger is turning to numbness now.

 

[butchersapron]

mass demonstrations needed in Egypt now

Well, the egypt side of the border is ready to go up proper and has been for ages - any move in that area is going to be cracked down on aggressively right away. Going to have to be Suez and other places i think. Friday is the day for it though....

 

[SpookyFrank]

mass demonstrations needed in Egypt now

I don't think it's a coincidence that an Egyptian government that might have considered opening the Rafah border was overthrown. The largest recipient of US military aid after Israel? Egypt. Egypt gets more in US military aid than Iraq. This cash goes to fund the vast Egyptian military who, coincidentally, were the people who got rid of Morsi and outlawed support for his party.

 

[laptop]

Why the facepalm?

Real atrocity, real atrocity, organ-harvesting? Is fake.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Israeli army confirms capture of Israeli soldier near Rafah

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=717375

 

[SpookyFrank]

Real atrocity, real atrocity, organ-harvesting? Is fake.

Classic conspiraloon trick, the old 'bullshit sandwich' where a bunch of bad stuff that actually happens is used to smuggle in something completely made up.

 

[belboid]

Well, the egypt side of the border is ready to go up proper and has been for ages - any move in that area is going to be cracked down on aggressively right away. Going to have to be Suez and other places i think. Friday is the day for it though....

Most likely right - Sisi is going to have to do something tho, or everything really is going to kick off there again, big style

 

[belboid]

Real atrocity, real atrocity, organ-harvesting? Is fake.

the fact that the time given is "5:8 PM" should give it away

 

[uk benzo]

Real atrocity, real atrocity, organ-harvesting? Is fake.

Who fucking cares right now... Palestinians are getting their organs pulverised to smithereens right now by fucking flechettes and DIMEs!

 

[belboid]

Israeli ministry of foreign affairs spokesman tells the BBC that the talks in Cairo will still go ahead.

A member of the Palestinian delegation for talks on ceasefire told NBC the Egyptians have informed them they are not willing to receive them

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think it's a coincidence that an Egyptian government that might have considered opening the Rafah border was overthrown. The largest recipient of US military aid after Israel? Egypt. Egypt gets more in US military aid than Iraq. This cash goes to fund the vast Egyptian military who, coincidentally, were the people who got rid of Morsi and outlawed support for his party.

so you think that their potential opening of the rafah border was a key consideration in the decision of the military to eject the government, a decision which from the tenor of your post you think was made in washington - in other words your thesis is that obama thought that the possibility morsi might open the rafah border which led him to give the green light to - or at least not hinder - the military coup.

as luther would have said, your thesis is faeces.

 

[SpookyFrank]

How oppressive are Hamas really when it comes to daily life in Gaza? I find it hard to believe that they outweigh the pressures of the occupation and actions of the Israeli govt. I haven't seen many Gazan accounts speaking out against them but would be interested to read some if anyone had any. It's difficult to sort what's real from Israeli propaganda.

Also not that Hamas are beyond reproach, but which criticisms are relevant to the conflict? I can't think of anything they do (or anyone does) that justifies Israeli aggression. Genuinely interested to hear different though - I'm just having trouble seeing past the actions of the Israeli govt so am thinking, um yeah actually I can understand that they want to fire rockets, blow themselves up, not recognise Israel etc.

It is the Israeli occupation the blockades that allowed Hamas to rise to power. Because they had a monopoly on smuggling through the tunnels, during the blockade it was Hamas that would provide you with materials to rebuild your house after the Israelis had blown it up, Hamas that kept hospitals stocked with medicines. This, as I understand it is how they gained popular support in Gaza. I don't know much about Hamas as a domestic government, but for better or worse the Israelis are responsible for them being there.

And of course the Israelis most likely want a militant faction ruling Gaza. If there were no Hamas rockets where would be the justification for the wall, the blockades, the air strikes and invasions?

 

[butchersapron]

It is the Israeli occupation the blockades that allowed Hamas to rise to power. Because they had a monopoly on smuggling through the tunnels, during the blockade it was Hamas that would provide you with materials to rebuild your house after the Israelis had blown it up, Hamas that kept hospitals stocked with medicines. This, as I understand it is how they gained popular support in Gaza. I don't know much about Hamas as a domestic government, but for better or worse the Israelis are responsible for them being there.

And of course the Israelis most likely want a militant faction ruling Gaza. If there were no Hamas rockets where would be the justification for the wall, the blockades, the air strikes and invasions?

Who currently provides the social service in this country?

 

[SpookyFrank]

so you think that their potential opening of the rafah border was a key consideration in the decision of the military to eject the government, a decision which from the tenor of your post you think was made in washington - in other words your thesis is that obama thought that the possibility morsi might open the rafah border which led him to give the green light to - or at least not hinder - the military coup.

as luther would have said, your thesis is faeces.

I don't think it was Obama's decision no, but I don't think US influence as a contributing factor can be discounted either. I'm sure the Americans had all sorts of other reasons to be less than thrilled at the prospect of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Cairo. The alternative is thinking that the US spends billions on overseas military aid out of the goodness of their hearts and not to maintain a degree of political and strategic control.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Who currently provides the social service in this country?

I wanna say social workers?

Hamas were in many ways providing state services before they were elected, something you wouldn't catch the tory party doing.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think it was Obama's decision no, but I don't think US influence as a contributing factor can be discounted either. I'm sure the Americans had all sorts of other reasons to be less than thrilled at the prospect of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Cairo. The alternative is thinking that the US spends billions on overseas military aid out of the goodness of their hearts and not to maintain a degree of political and strategic control.

Which they had with Morsi in non-power. The money is for the military and its not to open up the border with Gaza. Regardless of who is in power in Egypt. The money doesn't got to the formal state. It goes to the real state - the military. It didn't stop under Morsi.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The money doesn't got to the formal state. It goes to the real state - the military. It didn't stop under Morsi.

Which is possibly why they felt able to arrest Morsi and topple the nascent formal state?

 

[uk benzo]

Apparently the massive bombardment of Rafah is 'Hannibal Directive' driven.

 

[butchersapron]

I wanna say social workers?

Hamas were in many ways providing state services before they were elected, something you wouldn't catch the tory party doing.

Say what you want - it's the state and the parties that you so violently reject. And it happens because both labour and tory agree that it should (for whatever mercenary reasons) whether in power or not. So the idea that providing services - making the trains run on time for example - means that there must be some good there is a little naive.

 

[butchersapron]

Which is possibly why they felt able to arrest Morsi and topple the nascent formal state?

The US told them to?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Say what you want - it's the state and the parties that you so violently reject. And it happens because both labour and tory agree that it should (for whatever mercenary reasons) whether in power or not. So the idea that providing services - making the trains run on time for example - means that there must be some good there is a little naive.

I didn't say it was a good thing that Hamas was providing these services, just that it's a big part of the reason they've been able to win popular support.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The US told them to?

I doubt they told them not to, put it like that.

 

[smmudge]

You only want criticisms of how hamas in anyway justifies israeli state military actions - nothing else? Is that right? if so, why ask for criticisms of hamas and how they operate? v just reduced the issues down to the effectiveness of one military against another and disappeared politics - and with that disappearance goes the gaza w/c too.

Um, no, that's not right As you say what I'd like is criticisms of Hamas and how they operate, but in addition to know if any of them justify the Israeli govt's actions.