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Gaza under attack yet again.

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"@JonDonnison
Local media in gaza say hamas have captured an Israeli soldier in Rafah. Reporting 20 pals killed. Unconfirmed. Ceasefire looks to be over."

Israeli Channel 10 saying Hamas have violated the ceasefire. That'll make a change then.
 
How oppressive are Hamas really when it comes to daily life in Gaza? I find it hard to believe that they outweigh the pressures of the occupation and actions of the Israeli govt. I haven't seen many Gazan accounts speaking out against them but would be interested to read some if anyone had any. It's difficult to sort what's real from Israeli propaganda.

Also not that Hamas are beyond reproach, but which criticisms are relevant to the conflict? I can't think of anything they do (or anyone does) that justifies Israeli aggression. Genuinely interested to hear different though - I'm just having trouble seeing past the actions of the Israeli govt so am thinking, um yeah actually I can understand that they want to fire rockets, blow themselves up, not recognise Israel etc.
 
"@ThisIsGaZa
israeli warplanes, tanks, artillery insanely opens their hell on the people of Rafah murdering and injuring more than 200 so far"

"@ThisIsGaZa
Pll in Rafah report the worst shelling, bombing they have ever experienced .. 10s of bodies are scattered in the streets"
 
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Bt8ZLCdCIAAPmO9.jpg:large


"if you wonder, this is what Israel throws on the heads of little babies in Gaza"
 
smmudge said:
How oppressive are Hamas really when it comes to daily life in Gaza? I find it hard to believe that they outweigh the pressures of the occupation and actions of the Israeli govt. I haven't seen many Gazan accounts speaking out against them but would be interested to read some if anyone had any. It's difficult to sort what's real from Israeli propaganda.

Also not that Hamas are beyond reproach, but which criticisms are relevant to the conflict? I can't think of anything they do (or anyone does) that justifies Israeli aggression. Genuinely interested to hear different though - I'm just having trouble seeing past the actions of the Israeli govt so am thinking, um yeah actually I can understand that they want to fire rockets, blow themselves up, not recognise Israel etc.
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You might not want to try being a secular socialist/anarchist/communist/unionist in hamas controlled areas so much.
 
smmudge said:
How oppressive are Hamas really when it comes to daily life in Gaza? I find it hard to believe that they outweigh the pressures of the occupation and actions of the Israeli govt. I haven't seen many Gazan accounts speaking out against them but would be interested to read some if anyone had any. It's difficult to sort what's real from Israeli propaganda.

Also not that Hamas are beyond reproach, but which criticisms are relevant to the conflict? I can't think of anything they do (or anyone does) that justifies Israeli aggression. Genuinely interested to hear different though - I'm just having trouble seeing past the actions of the Israeli govt so am thinking, um yeah actually I can understand that they want to fire rockets, blow themselves up, not recognise Israel etc.
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Which criticisms aren't relevant to the conflict unless you want to simply militarise it, make it about who is more effective. That's a recipe for utter disaster though.
 
Does anyone know more about the apparent execution of civilians by Hamas a few days ago? I've had several people mention it to me in a 'whataboutery' sense so just wanted to know what the score is on that? I've heard the people executed were Israeli collaborators and I've heard conflicting numbers too. May not be worth pursuing because I don't wanna see Hamas through rose specs but I also don't wanna allow lies to go unchallenged. There's even an apparent video of the incident but it's gruesome so won't put on here. I doubt it's even Hamas though and it looks very old.
 
Doctor Carrot said:
Does anyone know more about the apparent execution of civilians by Hamas a few days ago? I've had several people mention it to me in a 'whataboutery' sense so just wanted to know what the score is on that? I've heard the people executed were Israeli collaborators and I've heard conflicting numbers too. May not be worth pursuing because I don't wanna see Hamas through rose specs but I also don't wanna allow lies to go unchallenged. There's even an apparent video of the incident but it's gruesome so won't put on here. I doubt it's even Hamas though and it looks very old.
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I've not heard anything about this.. even in the Arabic media. That's not to say that it didn't happen.
 
butchersapron said:
Hamas kill collabs all the time. Not saying tis one is genuine but it would be nothig out of the ordinary if it were.
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Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking. Killing colabs is hardly likely to be exclusive to Hamas either. I should probably calm down a bit in my fervour to counter Israeli propaganda and spin, it's not like I can counter all of it!
 
butchersapron said:
Which criticisms aren't relevant to the conflict unless you want to simply militarise it, make it about who is more effective. That's a recipe for utter disaster though.
Click to expand...

Relevant in that what does Hamas do that justifies the actions of the Israeli govt? Because I can think of lots of things the Israeli govt does that justifies a lot of Hamas' actions.

Also I don't really buy the "it's all about intent" argument. The intent is born of the situation, i.e. being occupied. If they really could carry out the intent, the situation would be very different, so who's to say that the same intent would be there?
 
smmudge said:
Relevant in that what does Hamas do that justifies the actions of the Israeli govt? Because I can think of lots of things the Israeli govt does that justifies a lot of Hamas' actions.

Also I don't really buy the "it's all about intent" argument. The intent is born of the situation, i.e. being occupied. If they really could carry out the intent, the situation would be very different, so who's to say that the same intent would be there?
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You only want criticisms of how hamas in anyway justifies israeli state military actions - nothing else? Is that right? if so, why ask for criticisms of hamas and how they operate? v just reduced the issues down to the effectiveness of one military against another and disappeared politics - and with that disappearance goes the gaza w/c too.
 
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Islamic Jihad-affiliated Palestine TV reported that the ceasefire had been “interrupted” because an Israeli soldier had 'gone missing' - presumed kidnapped.
 
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