Gaza under attack yet again.

[butchersapron]

I didn't say it was a good thing that Hamas was providing these services, just that it's a big part of the reason they've been able to win popular support.

That and massive corruption by the service providing fatah.

 

[sunnysidedown]

AlJaz can't stop talking about this single captured IDF killer duped young man

 

[SpookyFrank]

That and massive corruption by the service providing fatah.

Which also doesn't make Hamas 'good guys' in any sense, it just gives them an angle. Like Blair in 1997.

 

[hipipol]

It is the Israeli occupation the blockades that allowed Hamas to rise to power. Because they had a monopoly on smuggling through the tunnels, during the blockade it was Hamas that would provide you with materials to rebuild your house after the Israelis had blown it up, Hamas that kept hospitals stocked with medicines. This, as I understand it is how they gained popular support in Gaza. I don't know much about Hamas as a domestic government, but for better or worse the Israelis are responsible for them being there.

And of course the Israelis most likely want a militant faction ruling Gaza. If there were no Hamas rockets where would be the justification for the wall, the blockades, the air strikes and invasions?

Hamas may be elected govt but their control is not complete
There are a number of different groups with rocket launch capability and their own tunnels to get supplies in, raiding parties out. Gilad Shalit for example was captured by these guys, Army of Islam
Not great mates with Hamas
Islamic Jihad equally have had their own run ins with Hamas and maintain infrastructure of their own
Hamas, founded as recently as recently as 1987, was founded on Islamist groups that did not start out as a militant group to fight Israel, was there to provide social support, hospitals, schools etc and to fight with other Palestinian groups. The Brotherhood model of imbedding yourself in the hearts of the people by tending to their needs was the template
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Gaza though small, is not homogenous, Hamas do not control everything
Israel knows this but pretends EVERYTHING that happens that Israel doesn't like is at the direct command of Hamas
However when one of their commanders kills a bunch of children it was an accident/it never happened/he was a lone rogue*..........


*Delete where applicable

 

[butchersapron]

Um, no, that's not right As you say what I'd like is criticisms of Hamas and how they operate, but in addition to know if any of them justify the Israeli govt's actions.

So you only want criticisms that effect the israeli states actions? Does taking over trade unions and killing people who dissent count?

 

[Pickman's model]

The US told them to?

that's what he seems to be saying

 

[Pickman's model]

I doubt they told them not to, put it like that.

yeh but when i said that you took issue with me

 

[hipipol]

I didn't say it was a good thing that Hamas was providing these services, just that it's a big part of the reason they've been able to win popular support.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL THING
No other fucker would have done bugger all for them
I mean Hamas, not al-Qassim, tho they are rather joined at the hip

 

[smmudge]

Does taking over trade unions and killing people who dissent count?

That certainly comes under 'criticisms of Hamas and how they operate'. Have any links?

 

[SpookyFrank]

yeh but when i said that you took issue with me

I thought I was agreeing with you to be honest.

 

[SpookyFrank]

IT WAS A WONDERFUL THING
No other fucker would have done bugger all for them
I mean Hamas, not al-Qassim, tho they are rather joined at the hip

I would say at best it was a mixed blessing tbh. I don't think anything 'wonderful' has happened to Gaza for a good long while.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"@TeamPalestina
Adeer Goldern has been identified as the IOF soldier who has been captured in Gaza. He is a high ranking officer in the IOF."

 

[butchersapron]

That certainly comes under 'criticisms of Hamas and how they operate'. Have any links?

Of course.

With 47 per cent of the potential Palestinian labour force unemployed and a per capita income 23 times less than that of Israel, the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions (PGFTU) has a difficult enough job.

Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in June, however, their job has become much more difficult.

The PGFTU, in the West Bank and Gaza, has been attacked from all sides - by Hamas, a Fatah militia and Israel - in acts that have included, they say, murder attempts, raids, shootings and rocket attacks.

In June, the PGFTU said Hamas seized their headquarters and ordered the union's staff to discuss how they were to operate under Hamas rule.

According to Shaher Saed, general secretary of the PGFTU, the union refused to negotiate. As a result, Saed said, three assassination attempts were made by Hamas on Rasem Al Bayari, the union's deputy general secretary, which included a rocket attack on his home in January and the bombing of his office in February.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought I was agreeing with you to be honest.

moving on...

 

[Pickman's model]

"@TeamPalestina
Adeer Goldern has been identified as the IOF soldier who has been captured in Gaza. He is a high ranking officer in the IOF."

i wonder if they continue getting paid while they're captured, if so yer man who was held for years must have had a nice little lump sum waiting for him

 

[smmudge]

Of course.

Thanks

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"@PalestineVideo
120 Palestinian martyrs and moore than 500 wounded in Israeli aggression on Rafah." via @almanarnews

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"@JalalAK_jojo
22 Palestinians reportedly injured with Israeli live fire in Hebron now. via Palestine Today TV"

 

[rekil]

2:48 P.M. The IDF soldier apparently taken captive in Gaza is 2nd Lt. Hadar Goldin, 23, of Kfar Saba.

Bad luck old bean.

edit: didn't see last couple of pages

 

[Kalfindin]

http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/19-04-2013/124335-injection_viruses-0/

A Palestinian released from Israeli jails, Rania Saqa, has brought to light that the Israeli regime injected detainees that are out of prisons with dangerous viruses.

Noting that Palestinian prisoners suffer from serious and chronic diseases such as bladder cancer and liver disorders, Rania has revealed that the Tel Aviv regime injects prisoners with dangerous viruses before releasing them.

The released prisoner has asked the many institutions and the international community to examine them carefully.

Most former inmates die after being released from Israeli jails.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Senate blocks aid to Israel:
In the end, the Senate couldn’t even agree to deliver emergency aid to one of the United States’ closest allies.

A last-ditch effort to deliver aid to Israel during its war with Hamas died on the Senate floor, as Republicans blocked the proposal over concerns that it would increase the debt.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/senate-blocks-israel-aid-109617.html#ixzz398qr9LtS

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"‏@TeamPalestina
Israeli artillery targeted the Abu Yousef Al-Najjar Hospital East of Rafah"

 

[Plumdaff]

Being Senate Republicans, they've clearly blocked in for the least sensible reason, but fairy nuff.

 

[frogwoman]

Is this the arms that were meant to go out?

 

[uk benzo]

Is this the arms that were meant to go out?

$2.7 billion border aid package, which also included $225 million for Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system and $615 million to fight Western wildfires

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/senate-blocks-israel-aid-109617.html#ixzz398uIl8mT

 

[frogwoman]

$2.7 billion border aid package, which also included $225 million for Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system and $615 million to fight Western wildfires

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/senate-blocks-israel-aid-109617.html#ixzz398uIl8mT

Is this the same package that was announced yesterday (after the US condemned the shelling of the school)?

 

[frogwoman]

Is this the same package that was announced yesterday (after the US condemned the shelling of the school)?

If so this is really big news.

 

[uk benzo]

Is this the same package that was announced yesterday (after the US condemned the shelling of the school)?

Not sure. The US has so many 'aid' packages for the zionist state, it's easy to get lost in translation.

 

[weltweit]

http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/19-04-2013/124335-injection_viruses-0/

A Palestinian released from Israeli jails, Rania Saqa, has brought to light that the Israeli regime injected detainees that are out of prisons with dangerous viruses.

Noting that Palestinian prisoners suffer from serious and chronic diseases such as bladder cancer and liver disorders, Rania has revealed that the Tel Aviv regime injects prisoners with dangerous viruses before releasing them.

The released prisoner has asked the many institutions and the international community to examine them carefully.

Most former inmates die after being released from Israeli jails.

It would be interesting to see some evidence of this .. more than one article I mean.

 

[frogwoman]

Not sure. The US has so many 'aid' packages for the zionist state, it's easy to get lost in translation.

Its pretty big news to be honest. Wasn't the last time this happened in 1983?