Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
captain. not lieutenant.Was reading that earlier. You can see why that Lieutenant got off though, it was clearly a case of mistaken identity - he thought she was 10.
Gaza under attack yet again.
- Thread starter Mr.Bishie
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SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
It might - or it might make parents who were thinking about sending their kid on a birthright tour more likely to do so. It would cause pr damage I guess, but what difference will that make? And what is the outcome of a more isolated Israel? Does the Israeli working class move further towards the terror state or do they rebel against it? Does Israel recognise it must be less bullish if it operates without international support or does it dig in even further and unleash god knows what misery on the Middle East?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Similar arguments were made about htat other apartheid state (the RCP were very fond of doing so). And I'm not sure of the (thoroughly bought off) Israeli working-class can move much more towards the terror state - 87% support for bombing children already.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Gee, thanks. Y'kno if you're gonna pull the patronising "I'm a mature adult" you could try responding to my analysis instead of attempting to claim some kind of aged wisdom and dismissing what I say on the basis of 'yoof' and 'inexperience'. You know full well that if you did that in a political meeting you'd be kicked out and if you did it in a bar you'd by sparked out.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
That's refreshingly honest...
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Ah - the Wikipedia article on her killing refers to him as both; though of course (and apologies if people knew this already) it goes without saying that he was subsequently promoted to Major, was acquitted of even the joke charges that they tried him for, got compensation for his time inside and successfully sued people who had reported on the story.
I guess he just had better lawyers than Hayb did.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
There's no way the Israeli state would ever be that stupid - is there?
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
"@Omar_Gaza: people, I am still alive. thank U for ur concern. power has been off for 4 days now, no signs of it returning anytime soon."
"@AYAHUMAIDM: Today I can tweet, seconds, minutes, hours maybe days later, I don't know where I could be, because everyone is targeted in #Gaza."
"@AYAHUMAIDM: Today I can tweet, seconds, minutes, hours maybe days later, I don't know where I could be, because everyone is targeted in #Gaza."
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
have you been watching the zionist entity closely over the past few weeks?
If the zionist entity can murder innocent babies so nonchalantly, they are capable of doing anything.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think we already discussed that that particular poll was very dodgy - though I don't doubt that the percentage is high. And I don't think its realistic to speak of a "bought off" working class at a time when the Israeli state is bombing Palestinians and quietly carrying out privatisations and cut backs. We can speculate about the attitudes of Israeli workers but it simply isn't possible to 'buy them off' in the same way the Apartheid state did.
Similar arguments were made about the Apartheid state, sometimes rightly imo. I'm not against all boycotts or sanctions but I don't think they can be useful as a blanket approach. Perhaps the most important lesson of South Africa is that none of the sanctions ever did make much difference anyway - AngloPlatinum, Barclays, Lonmin - all these huge manufacturing and financial powerhouses stayed in South Africa right up until the end. When they saw Apartheid was ending, they didn't leave, just got on with the job of buying off the ANC.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
It's not about what they're capable of though is it? They'll do anything to brutalise the Palestinian population, but why would they antagonise a significant section of Jewish Israeli's? What would be the motivation? Surely the Haredi aren't that much of a problem for them?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
There's something strange here.
These tweets, apparently by Gabriele Barbati, have been circulating on right-wing and Israeli media as "proof" that Hamas rockets were responsible.
Googling Gabriele Barbati, he seems reasonably balanced and broadly sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Not the type of person who'd post a couple of one line tweets supportive of the IDF and then just fuck off.
Curious stuff.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Its his account. He claims that his tweets are being deliberately manipulated now -but about later reporting. I guess deliberate mistranslation of his words? But they are there to read.
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Eh? What are you talking about? Haneen Zoabi is Palestinian of origin.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The Histradut is, an always has been, a key part of he Zionist agenda. It will always be avowedly Zionist and will never be part of a solution (see its refusal to organise migrant workers, for example). There has never been an example of workers mobilising around material or trade-union issues to challenge the Israeli regime itself, all that has happened is that they have become more and more supportive of the state. That poll may be distinctly dodgy, but there can't be any doubt about who the large majority of the w-c are supporting.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Ahhh, right - ignore me, I'm skim reading and mixed the two up! Apologies.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I didn't mention Histradrut. I don't disagree that it's leadership are totally wedded to the Zionist project either. I don't understand your response though - I'm sure we would both agree that the TUC leadership in Britain is wedded to capitalism and will never challenge the state, but I wouldn't expect you to then write off the TUC's grassroots membership as a result.
As for workers challenging the Israeli regime on material or trade union issues, well it depends what you mean. In recent years it has become more common for Jewish and Palestinian Israeli's to go on strike together - is that not a positive development?
E2A: I really don't understand your response. Weren't we talking about sanctions?
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
"@KrustyAllslopp
Hahaha the #IOF don't even know where they are! MT.@JFXM Senior Israeli official to BBC: "We've neutralized 70-80% of Hamas tunnels... LOL"
Nuff said. Without their planes, their ships & tanks, the IOF are fuck all. A bunch of useless fucking incompetent child killers. Fuck them.
Hahaha the #IOF don't even know where they are! MT.@JFXM Senior Israeli official to BBC: "We've neutralized 70-80% of Hamas tunnels... LOL"
Nuff said. Without their planes, their ships & tanks, the IOF are fuck all. A bunch of useless fucking incompetent child killers. Fuck them.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
No fucking way have they neutralised that many tunnels. Although, how do you neutralise a tunnel exactly?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You blow it up!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Hence the state of Israel's increasingly-desperate trawling through the world to find Jews (or possible Jews) to emigrate to the Holy Land, to prop up the population, and squeeze a few more years in before the demographic timebomb detonates.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The plan isn't to neutralise them all. It's to leave both some and the opp to make more to legitimise future actions.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Or as Egypt do, you flood it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
All of it?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
or burn it down
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and kick it it till it breaks.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
3 main ways:
1) Air-drop ground-penetrating munitions on likely targets. This costs the least Israeli lives, but given that many of these tunnels will be maybe 8ft x 6ft max, the cost in munitions will be very high - a lot of them will just make craters, rather than bursting tunnels.
2) Penetrate the tunnels with troops, blow them from the inside. This is by far the most costly method in terms of Israeli lives, and would depend on breaching scores of separate tunnel access and egress points, each of which is likely to be the nexus for a crossfire from defensive positions.
3) Ceasefire.
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