Gaza under attack yet again.

[Mr.Bishie]

Gaza faces major environmental and health disaster.

A Palestinian official has warned that the embattled Gaza Strip is reeling under an environmental and health disaster after the enclave's only power plant was forced to shut down on Tuesday following an Israeli attack on the facility's fuel depot.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/palestine/141650/gaza-faces-major-environmental-and-health-disaster

How the fuck Gaza can recover from this?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

2) Penetrate the tunnels with troops, blow them from the inside. This is by far the most costly method in terms of Israeli lives, and would depend on breaching scores of separate tunnel access and egress points, each of which is likely to be the nexus for a crossfire from defensive positions.

Palestinian resistance would love that.

 

[SpackleFrog]

3 main ways:

1) Air-drop ground-penetrating munitions on likely targets. This costs the least Israeli lives, but given that many of these tunnels will be maybe 8ft x 6ft max, the cost in munitions will be very high - a lot of them will just make craters, rather than bursting tunnels.

2) Penetrate the tunnels with troops, blow them from the inside. This is by far the most costly method in terms of Israeli lives, and would depend on breaching scores of separate tunnel access and egress points, each of which is likely to be the nexus for a crossfire from defensive positions.

3) Ceasefire.

Aye, but I meant that saying "neutralise" rather than "destroy" is a bit vaguer and leaves more wriggle room.

 

[SpackleFrog]

How the fuck Gaza can recover from this?

Depends what you mean by recover - life will go on, but the point is that Gaza won't recover exactly.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Depends what you mean by recover - life will go on, but the point is that Gaza won't recover exactly.

Life doesn't last too long without the basics.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Life doesn't last too long without the basics.

Depends what basics...communities the world over survive without clean safe drinking water, if that's what you mean. It just isn't much of a life and life expectancy is very low.

 

[belboid]

I didn't mention Histradrut. I don't disagree that it's leadership are totally wedded to the Zionist project either. I don't understand your response though - I'm sure we would both agree that the TUC leadership in Britain is wedded to capitalism and will never challenge the state, but I wouldn't expect you to then write off the TUC's grassroots membership as a result.

As for workers challenging the Israeli regime on material or trade union issues, well it depends what you mean. In recent years it has become more common for Jewish and Palestinian Israeli's to go on strike together - is that not a positive development?

E2A: I really don't understand your response. Weren't we talking about sanctions?

we were talking about a potential role for the Israeli jewish w-c, I thought. And Histradut are important because they go way more central to the state and the working-class than the TUC are. They bind the whole (Jewish) people together (in theory), that's why they were set up. Today, there is no significant w-c opposition to the war, no big anti-war demo's (which there were during the first and second intifadas). Because of how jewish and palestinian workers are overwhelmingly kept apart, it is incredibly rare for them to strike together, it is systematically made as hard as possible, way beyond anything any western government has managed. Sad but true.

How do sanctions fit into this? Well, the sporting and cultural boycotts did have something of an effect in SA, and they do here, and while few companies decided to pull out of SA, the sanctions and boycotts made it far harder for them to get any new investment in, and so the economy was badly affected. They also forced SA's biggest supporters (notably the UK & US) to break that support (a bit). It sent the message that 'this cant go on.' And the white minority eventually were forced to act on that.

Isolating the state may not necessarily break workers from the it, but it can hardly make matters any worse.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Depends what basics...communities the world over survive without clean safe drinking water, if that's what you mean.

Oh come on now ffs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Right, hey up - "demographic time bomb" - what's that about? Cos I've heard it from a lot of people that part of the reason for the mentality of Jewish Israeli's in regard to any kind of one state solution is that the relative birthrates of Israeli Jews and Palestinians means that they would soon be the minority in any one state formation. Now that to me sounds like a whole load of dodgy racist bollocks and I'm all sold on the neccessity of a two-state solution, at least in terms of rhetoric. Anyone else shed a little light? I've checked out birthrates and it seems like a lot of nonsense to me.

One of the bigger issues with regard to it is that while standard factors with regard to immigrants to the state of Israel come into play (secular 2nd-generation immigrants have smaller families, religious 2nd generations have big families who mostly won't end up contributing to the state), the Palestinian birth rate has the usual reaction to war - replacement levels plus. This is one of the reasons for the constant oppression over the last 20 years, that and the fact that the majority of Palestinians who could afford to emigrate, left long ago, whereas the state of Israel bleeds out-emigrants at around (last time I looked, which was about 6 years ago) 20,000 a year, not including to the states.
The differential in birthrates has been a serious source of concern for Zionism since the foundation of the state of Israel. The state had a vision which was very a Zionist melding of secular and religious principles, big families of Judaists willing to take up arms to defend the state. As it is, around 15% of the population are ultra-Orthodox, and won't even pick up a gun to defend themselves, let alone anything as secular as a state.

 

[Spymaster]

Its his account. He claims that his tweets are being deliberately manipulated now -but about later reporting. I guess deliberate mistranslation of his words? But they are there to read.

Where can I see his stuff?

Do I need to be on Twitter to read it?

 

[J Ed]

Link to Laurie Penny's piece.

The rest of the pieces in this week's issue can be accessed through the home page.

How come she is only Jewish when she can use it to grandstand? Has she even mentioned the fact that she is Jewish before? Seems like another lie to make her part of the story.

 

[ddraig]

Where can I see his stuff?

Do I need to be on Twitter to read it?

https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati
you don't need to be on there to read them but you'd have to keep refreshing the page

 

[Spymaster]

Cheers.

 

[goldenecitrone]

How come she is only Jewish when she can use it to grandstand? Has she even mentioned the fact that she is Jewish before? Seems like another lie to make her part of the story.

Why would she lie about it? It can't be difficult to check up on.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why would she lie about it? It can't be difficult to check up on.

people make shit up even when it can be readily checked: see, for example, tony blair saying he'd gone to see nufc when he clearly couldn't have done.

 

[Pickman's model]

Depends what basics...communities the world over survive without clean safe drinking water, if that's what you mean. It just isn't much of a life and life expectancy is very low.

do they? where in the uk do they?

 

[butchersapron]

Where can I see his stuff?

Do I need to be on Twitter to read it?

Cheers.

On the original link click on the time in the posts as well.

 

[J Ed]

Why would she lie about it? It can't be difficult to check up on.

I'm not saying she is necessarily lying about it 100%, and she probably does have some Jewish ancestry somewhere, but I don't think that she is Jewish beyond the desire to insert her own Jewishness into a story to make the story of dying Gazans about her like she always likes to make the story about her.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I'm not saying she is necessarily lying about it, and she probably does have some Jewish ancestry somewhere, but I don't think that she is Jewish beyond the desire to insert her own Jewishness into a story to make the story of dying Gazans about her like she always likes to make the story about her.

She mentioned it recently in the attacks on her and her new book.

Laurie Penny: Feminist author subjected to 'vile sexist and anti-Semitic abuse' over her book

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-antisemitic-abuse-over-her-book-9617744.html

 

[Pickman's model]

How the fuck Gaza can recover from this?

a question that troubles the zionist high command

 

[butchersapron]

**wrong thread**

 

[Pickman's model]

She mentioned it recently in the attacks on her and her new book.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-antisemitic-abuse-over-her-book-9617744.html

the most vile things have been said about her book. some people have gone so far as to say they'd buy it.

 

[J Ed]

edit: I'm gonna stop here re: Laurie Penny cos ba is right, this is the wrong thread for this.

 

[Spymaster]

https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati
you don't need to be on there to read them but you'd have to keep refreshing the page

When he tags folk in his posts (@NBC, @meetthepress, etc) is actually communicating with them or just making a point to everyone else?

< I've no idea how twitter works >

 

[butchersapron]

When he tags folk in his posts (@NBC, @meetthepress, etc) is actually communicating with them or just making a point to everyone else?

< I've no idea how twitter works >

That means that it pops up in their timeline (the thing they see). They may choose to talk to him or not. If there are public replies it will say view conversation (or something similar depending on what client you are using - there are many).

 

[Spymaster]

That means that it pops up in their timeline (the thing they see). They may choose to talk to him or not. If there are public replies it will say view conversation (or something similar depending on what client you are using - there are many).

And if they respond I'll be able to see the reply?

 

[butchersapron]

And if they respond I'll be able to see the reply?

Yes, unless they choose to make it private.

 

[Barking_Mad]

You might need a lie down. I've checked, it is her.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a logical and trad far-right zionist view.

 

[J Ed]

You might need a lie down. I've checked, it is her.

Doesn't make sense though, support for this assault is multipartisan, it cannot be reduced to just Netanyahu.