French magazine publishes controversial cartoons of Prophet Muhammad - many killed in revenge attack

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sure you've all been waiting for it, but here it is at last - the judgement of Solomon:



https://www.facebook.com/solomonsmindfield/posts/679238710253

I think we can know a fair deal about their motivation. This was not random. In avoiding attacking innocent Muslims, it's possible to go too far the other way and avoid some rather obvious, uncomfortable things, such as that there exists a political Islam across the world that supports such attacks.

 

[DotCommunist]

What do they mean by praying in public?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...766169/Praying-in-Paris-streets-outlawed.html
this was it, a paris specific thing

 

[BigMoaner]

This isn't really about Islam. It is political. Anybody blaming Islam would do well to think about history rather than prejudice.

A few pages back the massacre of Algerians by Maurice Papon in 1961. The film Cache by Michael Hanake is partly inspired by those events, about how repression of history can lead to outbursts of violence, that the tranquility enjoyed by the privileged is based on historical violence.

There are lessons to be learned here, and none of them are really about Islam.

is that a justification. there are many of the earth's people with far worse histories, but they don't go around shooting unarmed people. my irish brother in law had a terrible history caused by the british, but thankfully he doesn't go around shooting people. there's more to this than history, to "repression" and all the other rationalisations. at the end of the day i think the theory that is closest to the mark is that of religious extremism gone bad, a warped world view based on little but derangement.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

i don't think Sasaferrato does twitter

Nor do I. I read about the tweets on a respectable journal of record, though. As might have Sass.

 

[fogbat]

It does indeed. However, Christianity seems to be considerably more tolerant. I cannot recall a single incident of an attack on the offices of the film company with semi-automatic weapons as a result of the film.

Quite right. Anders Breivik stuck to a youth camp.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why the inverted commas? Because I have profound doubts about the Muslim ideals. It is debatable as to whether it should be classified as a faith, or as a patriarchal system of command and control. I find it absolutely astonishing that anyone who regards themselves as a feminist can espouse the tenets of Islam. Sharia law is deeply biased against women. A woman should be willed half of that willed to a male relative, for example. A man may take four wives, but a woman caught with a 'bit on the side' is stoned to death. Really lovely ideology.

One cannot really cite the Saudi lunatics as being absolutely representative of the Muslim 'faith', but they do base their civil law on the Koran and Sharias. I suppose you could equate them to the 'Christian' lunatics that kill abortion clinic staff.

have you read the book of leviticus, freely available in bibles worldwide, recently? it would help this thread, and it would help you, if you didn't post such arrant nonsense but tried instead to post something worth contributing.

 

[elbows]

Steve Bell tells BBC News channel: "We've got to stand up for the right to take the piss out of these monsters, these idiots, these fools, these posturing maniacs who strut around in their black gear as a kind of death cult trying to frighten us all."

 

[butchersapron]

I'm sure you've all been waiting for it, but here it is at last - the judgement of Solomon:



https://www.facebook.com/solomonsmindfield/posts/679238710253

The Richard Seymour piece i posted earlier suggests that to call this terrorism is a) to jump the gun and b) to side with state islamophibia

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is bigger than what they think. They are a product of the society they live in. And not just muslim society either.

By the sound of it, they are a product of France, just as the London bombers were a product of Britain. I agree that it is bigger, but it still is about Islam. Killing in the name of Mohammad is necessarily about Islam.

 

[krink]

Relations between French intelligence and the MOSSAD aren't good at the best of times. DCRI are highly unlikely to have let a MOSSAD ASU walk around Paris (and yes, they do all spy on each other and keep rolls of each others' agents. ).

the forum i saw that stuff on had 18 pages within 1 hour of the incident. fruitloops

 

[Maurice Picarda]

By the sound of it, they are a product of France, .

I thought they claimed to be AQAP?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Steve Bell tells BBC News channel: "We've got to stand up for the right to take the piss out of these monsters, these idiots, these fools, these posturing maniacs who strut around in their black gear as a kind of death cult trying to frighten us all."

As with Rushdie's comment, that could be aimed at any of the major faiths.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I thought they claimed to be AQAP?

My understanding was that they spoke perfectly fluent French. May have got that wrong.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought they claimed to be AQAP?

al qaeda en artois et picardy?

 

[Stay Beautiful]

French firearms laws are nowhere near as stringent as those of the UK, so talking about Britain and France as if they're comparable is daft.

Fair comment. It was perhaps initial frustration with the brazen nature of these sort of attacks and how cold blooded and calculated they often are. If they're that calculating, it would be helpful to give them something to think about before they go ahead and carry it out.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's particularly irksome, and fundamentally misses the point, when people call suicide bombers "cowards". There's a lot to be said for cowardice. It protects people from doing mad or dangerous things.

Attacking the defenceless, that's cowardice.

 

[J Ed]

The Richard Seymour piece i posted earlier suggests that to call this terrorism is a) to jump the gun and b) to side with state islamophibia

#JeSuisDieudonne

 

[Mr Moose]

To this, and to the comments upthread about whoever did this not caring about dumping Muslims-in-general in the shit: it reinforces for me how modern Islamism is.

The particularly evil strand explicitly doesn't care about Muslims-in-general. They're not-proper-Muslims - takfir.

The thing is to maximise conflict.

So it has more in common with the Oklahoma bomber than with Islam. And in the end it's as fantastical, as delusional, as that attempt to start a race war.

Yes, I think American extremists provide a good parallel. However the extreme Christian Right have arguable traction in the USA none whatsoever in Europe and are opposed and laughed at by other Christians. It sometimes seems as if fundamentalist Islam is harder to oppose within the Muslim community than it's Christian counterparts. I say 'seems' because I'm not in anyway certain it is and it's prob unfair.

But I'm not aware of mass Muslim anti-islamicfascist opposition in Europe ready to deride fundamentalism. And it's hard to blame anyone - who would want stick their heads above the parapet?

 

[BigMoaner]

Attacking the defenceless, that's cowardice.

oh but that copper who held out his hand and no doubt begged them not shoot was just a symbol of western oppression and the murder of the people in their lands and the stealing of their resources.

what a load of old shit.

 

[quiquaquo]

My understanding was that they spoke perfectly fluent French. May have got that wrong.

Read the opposite, they mentioned "bad French" although presumably that was their common language otherwise why use French. Thought the post that mentioned them using military hand signals was interesting, possibly they are ex military.

 

[Pickman's model]

Armed citizens br cause unless your going to spend a months wages on ammo every year your unlikely to hit the side of a barn in a crisis

sometimes that's all you need to hit.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Attacking the defenceless, that's cowardice.

Shooting a bunch of people, including coppers, in an obvious terror target within a capital city festooned with CCTV, with no idea how or where armed response capability might be situated, then haring off in a weeny little supermini?

It would take more balls than I've got.

 

[Pickman's model]

Read the opposite, they mentioned "bad French" although presumably that was their common language otherwise why use French. Thought the post that mentioned them using military hand signals was interesting, possibly they are ex military.

tbh military hand signals aren't exactly a state secret. any terrorist worth his salt is going to have carried out some training, and when ears might be ringing from gunshots using signals a fairly obvious thing to do.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Read the opposite, they mentioned "bad French" although presumably that was their common language otherwise why use French.

If you wanted to explain to your victims why you were shooting them, or generally to administer a pre-murder telling off?

 

[quiquaquo]

Yes, I think American extremists provide a good parallel. However the extreme Christian Right have arguable traction in the USA none whatsoever in Europe and are opposed and laughed at by other Christians. It sometimes seems as if fundamentalist Islam is harder to oppose within the Muslim community than it's Christian counterparts. I say 'seems' because I'm not in anyway certain it is and it's prob unfair.

But I'm not aware of mass Muslim anti-islamicfascist opposition in Europe ready to deride fundamentalism. And it's hard to blame anyone - who would want stick their heads above the parapet?

Possibly that's due to a general reluctance to declare anyone a non Muslim as from a religious perspective that is for God alone to do. Takfir etc...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Shooting a bunch of people, including coppers, in an obvious terror target within a capital city festooned with CCTV, with no idea how or where armed response capability might be situated, then haring off in a weeny little supermini?

It would take more balls than I've got.

Yes, I do find it a bit odd when this kind of attack is described as cowardly. If they were resistance fighters in a war, they'd be described and brave, surely.

 

[Dillinger4]

Assume for a moment that the islamaphobes are correct, and Islam is a backward medival whatever religion.

What is the answer? Round them up and send them all back to where they came from? Reeducation into secularism and atheism? Extermination?

These are people who are claiming that they represent Western Enlighenment values, yet they display no rationality, no historical analysis, just simple prejudice.

This is all leading somewhere very dark. Sometime in the future some of us might look back on all of this and feel deeply ashamed.

 

[krink]

I thought they claimed to be AQAP?

Maybe they could be AQAP and French, being trained, directed or whatever by their Yemeni bosses?

 

[treelover]

Tommy is sending out a tweet a minute, expect him on newsnight, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Attacking the defenceless, that's cowardice.

yeh. but the best time to attack someone is when they're defenceless. would you give a big burly bloke the chance to stand up if you were fighting him or put the boot in while he was on the ground?