French magazine publishes controversial cartoons of Prophet Muhammad - many killed in revenge attack

[hipipol]

Is the Pope Polish?

no

 

[Spymaster]

Tell you what, if the attackers are intent on a spectacular and a spectacular death, esp if they have others waiting in the wings, then 5pm tonight at the Place de la République would be a pretty inviting target.

The Place de la Republique and access to it is likely to be the most heavily guarded and secured site in Europe at 5pm tonight. I doubt they'll be anywhere near it.

 

[phildwyer]

no

Precisely my dear.

Neither was Machiavelli.

 

[Vintage Paw]

On one level, I agree with you but on another I find these arguments increasingly difficult to believe.

It's rational actor territory, which social psychology and behavioural economics has shown to be deeply unreliable.

Ostensibly these chaps believe in Allah, a monotheistic being that created everything in the most perfect manner.

The idea that they are also tightly and cynically strategic doesn't sit well with that, which is a good thing.

Honest question - was Machiavelli a devout Catholic?

Oh I don't claim to know what strategies they are employing, either as an umbrella group with a cohesive philosophy and long term goal or as smaller groups of individuals acting towards shorter term goals on impulse or otherwise.

The whole thing is so incredibly complex, I don't expect it's as simple as it's one or it's the other. Nothing is.

Whether they intend or not for it to cause further destabilisation and widening of a gulf in public and government sentiment, that's the effect it will likely have, and that will serve their cause well. Theirs is a cause that thrives off 'us' and 'them' - so if the lines are more clearly drawn between 'us' and 'them' they get a boost - whether that's more people joining them abroad, more attacks like this, or whatever.

So my post was less a comment on their strategic mindset and more a comment on the effect this sort of things has and how it benefits them in certain ways.

 

[butchersapron]

The Place de la Republique and access to it is likely to be the most heavily guarded and secured site in Europe at 5pm tonight. I doubt they'll be anywhere near it.

"if the attackers are intent on a spectacular and a spectacular death"

 

[rekil]

.

Apparently this was the last tweet from the magazine before the attack...

As someone said, for this to provoke the attack it would mean that they were already driving around in Paris armed to the teeth, and on the twitter. (I know you're not suggesting this, but given the range of hot takes that are circulating, I'd wager it's out there somewhere)

 

[Spymaster]

"if the attackers are intent on a spectacular and a spectacular death"

"I doubt they'll be anywhere near it".

 

[The Boy]

"if the attackers are intent on a spectacular and a spectacular death"

Based on nothing more than idle speculation, I don't think they will be.

 

[brogdale]

Based on nothing more than idle speculation, I don't think they will be.

No, atm they're busy humiliating the forces of the state.

 

[butchersapron]

First one spotted! Richard Seymour on Charlie Hebdo.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

From David Pope, cartoonist at The Canberra Times

 

[krtek a houby]

Fuck off. That wasn't my point and you know it.

Expand on your point about these well educated articulate types, then.

 

[JimW]

Expand on your point about these well educated articulate types, then.

Why do you find it hard to believe you can be well-educated and articulate and capable of murder for a cause in a suicide attack or similar? That turned out to be the profile of the 9-11 hijackers, for example.

 

[DotCommunist]

That's what they want. Our first instinct might be to shout in exasperation "but you just made it worse for Muslims everywhere, you fucking idiots" but in reality a ramping up of tensions suits them perfectly. The more governments and public sentiment move to the right and the more attacks there are on Muslims as a result, the more they can justify to themselves their reason for existing and the more they can ratchet up their activity, their follower base, and their influence.

(I expect this has already been said, still reading the thread.)

strategy of tension ennit

 

[hipipol]

Precisely my dear.

Neither was Machiavelli.

What?
Polish or a devout catholic?
On another note - I am not your "dear" and you are very rarely "precise"

 

[Paulie]

Are the gunmen 'on the loose' or 'at large'? The former suggests they're still driving around with guns; the latter that they haven't been found yet.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Why do you find it hard to believe you can be well-educated and articulate and capable of murder for a cause in a suicide attack or similar? That turned out to be the profile of the 9-11 hijackers, for example.

They were probably engineers.

http://orientemiedo.files.wordpress...-so-many-engineers-among-islamic-radicals.pdf

 

[Stay Beautiful]

Are the gunmen 'on the loose' or 'at large'? The former suggests they're still driving around with guns; the latter that they haven't been found yet.

They've found the car abandoned.

 

[Spymaster]

Based on nothing more than idle speculation, I don't think they will be.

I suspect it's difficult to carry a nail file around central Paris at the moment, never mind assault rifles.

 

[Paulie]

They've found the car abandoned.

Ok - so 'at large' then. Just Sky News graphics choosing their language...

What's the significance of the car with the caved-in front wheel I keep seeing?

 

[laptop]

They were probably engineers.

http://orientemiedo.files.wordpress...-so-many-engineers-among-islamic-radicals.pdf

Cue outraged posting from the Royal Academy of Engineering... that so upset them.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/03/al-qaeda-most-wanted-list/62673/

This is the rest of the hit list which featured Charbonnier. That's assuming that Inspire is a legit AQ publication, rather than a crude piece of bait written by hard-pressed government hacks.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Expand on your point about these well educated articulate types, then.

Your conflation is more amusing tbf.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Cue outraged posting from the Royal Academy of Engineering... that so upset them.

I was going to speculate on whether engineers are actually articulate, but I worried that this might upset stuff_it

 

[a_chap]

A vigil in support of Charlie Hebdo in Trafalgar Square tonight apparently.

 

[The Boy]

I suspect it's difficult to carry a nail file around central Paris at the moment, never mind assault rifles.

i was thinking more of weather they would want to, raster than if they would be able to.

my first thought was similar-ish to butchers - "who's next?" - but the apparent level of organisation, reports of them calling journalists by name etc makes me think otherwise.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

 

[a_chap]

 

[butchersapron]

Anther cartoonists reaction:

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Surely she doesn't think that a M. Hebdo has been gunned down? Not even Mensch?