For those who believe in revolution by force, a question?

[A380]

Following on from the armed forces people thread to unpick different strands.

How do those of you who genuinely believe the transformation to an anarchist or communist or socialist or combination of the above state is due in a few years and will be brought about in the face of armed resistance from the current state think this will be delivered?

This question is directed to those who feel violence is required, rather than non violent civil disobedience/ non violent direct action or the State withering away.

Will societal change occur in the UK after a ‘terrorist’ campaign, an insurgency, asymmetrical warfare or full on symmetrical conflict. Do you predict enough members of the current state organisations switching sides and bringing kit and skills with them, will those need to come from outside the UK, or can the vanguard movement(s) train , motivate and equip sufficient people? What are you overarching planning assumptions- asking for a friend.

Also, any recommendations for nice restaurants near Cheltenham?

 

[keybored]

Also, any recommendations for nice restaurants near Cheltenham?

I'm sure the staff of a certain organisation who will be watching this thread can let you know.

 

[platinumsage]

My dad used to take me on a trip by train to Cheltenham solely to have dinner in Pizza Land, because they didn't have a branch in our home town. It's closed down now though.

 

[krtek a houby]

Put a pineapple on a pizza. Guaranteed instant revolt.

 

[A380]

I'm sure the staff of a certain organisation who will be watching this thread can let you know.

Trip Advisor?

 

[krtek a houby]

Trip Advisor?

Trip advisor special pizza branch

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I don't think there's anyone who believes that there will be a revolution in just a few years time.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I don't think there's anyone who believes that there will be a revolution in just a few years time.

That'll be our chance then. Take them by surprise!

 

[platinumsage]

My impression, based purely on posts made by various people to this website, is that armed revolution would begin by the stringing up of all the MPs from lamposts, and would end, presumably, when either all the non-stringer-uppers have been shot, or when everyone who isn't dead but is a worker and has never been Tory is suddenly enlightened as to the desirability of immediate full communism.

 

[Pickman's model]

Following on from the armed forces people thread to unpick different strands.

How do those of you who genuinely believe the transformation to an anarchist or communist or socialist or combination of the above state is due in a few years and will be brought about in the face of armed resistance from the current state think this will be delivered?

This question is directed to those who feel violence is required, rather than non violent civil disobedience/ non violent direct action or the State withering away.

Will societal change occur in the UK after a ‘terrorist’ campaign, an insurgency, asymmetrical warfare or full on symmetrical conflict. Do you predict enough members of the current state organisations switching sides and bringing kit and skills with them, will those need to come from outside the UK, or can the vanguard movement(s) train , motivate and equip sufficient people? What are you overarching planning assumptions- asking for a friend.

Also, any recommendations for nice restaurants near Cheltenham?

yes

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think there's anyone who believes that there will be a revolution in just a few years time.

it'll be in but a flickering of the eye in geological terms

 

[Pickman's model]

Put a pineapple on a pizza. Guaranteed instant revolt.

it's the greatest canadian contribution to cuisine

 

[Chilli.s]

I'm an optimist and hope that non violent revolution would be a possibility. A mixture of strike action by workers and civil disobedience by everyone else and those who are unable to strike. The population is always greater than the forces used to control it.

 

[marty21]

The last time there was a remote possibility of an armed revolution was in the 70s as far as I can tell , that well known Communist Harold Wilson was too much for some folk and there was talk of the army taking over & installing Mountbatten as our new glorious Leader . The reality was that a few cranks wanted this but it never got anywhere .

 

[krtek a houby]

The last time there was a remote possibility of an armed revolution was in the 70s as far as I can tell , that well known Communist Harold Wilson was too much for some folk and there was talk of the army taking over & installing Mountbatten as our new glorious Leader . The reality was that a few cranks wanted this but it never got anywhere .

This is the worry, isn't it. Spend far too much time on the social media and paying attention to chatter but if anything, reckon any kind of armed revolution will come from the wrong direction.

In the US, at least.

 

[Gromit]

Revolution by force means either terrorism or guerilla warfare. Both long drawn out paths that seldom end in victory.

Successful examples I guess include
Northern Island
Vietnam
Afghanistan

I think non violent examples have been more effective

India
Syria

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

The best revolution by use of force was when Luke blew up the death star.

 

[marty21]

If the armed forces do arrest Boris and install a new glorious Leader, I'm hoping that I might be safe from any re-education camp skulduggery, as I went to school with the new top guy , about to take over as Chief of all our armed forces.

 

[LDC]

My impression, based purely on posts made by various people to this website, is that armed revolution would begin by the stringing up of all the MPs from lamposts, and would end, presumably, when either all the non-stringer-uppers have been shot, or when everyone who isn't dead but is a worker and has never been Tory is suddenly enlightened as to the desirability of immediate full communism.

FFS, who showed you the plan? Was supposed to be a surprise.

 

[krtek a houby]

If the armed forces do arrest Boris and install a new glorious Leader, I'm hoping that I might be safe from any re-education camp skulduggery, as I went to school with the new top guy , about to take over as Chief of all our armed forces.

Make sure that you don't tell anyone about it

 

[marty21]

Make sure that you don't tell anyone about it

You are probably already on a list

 

[krtek a houby]

You are probably already on a list

Been told that on social media a zillion times

 

[danny la rouge]

Any use of force that does not have, a) widespread support and b) a good chance of success, is in my view counter productive and indeed terrorism. In other words, more likely to frighten decent working class people and drive them away from the goal of a revolutionary society.

Therefore a good deal of groundwork is needed before any apparatus of state should be attacked, by which time the metaphorical ramparts should already be crumbling.

 

[JimW]

Revolution by force means either terrorism or guerilla warfare. Both long drawn out paths that seldom end in victory.

Successful examples I guess include
Northern Island
Vietnam
Afghanistan

I think non violent examples have been more effective

India
Syria

The CCP won a protracted war against the US-backed Nationalists and created a lasting regime, India still has the caste system in place and by most sober accounts actually managed to starve more peasants than the Beijing regime despite its mad episodes.

 

[bellaozzydog]

We aren’t even in spitting distance of any sort of meaningful disobedience

And the level of civil disobedience required to effect any change from this thick skinned, media controlling government is so much higher than previously required (poll tax for example) to make meaningful changes

The internet and Facebook is the ultimate divide and control tool to keep the lower ranks outraged at each other in confected culture wars

How hard does the boot need to be on the neck before people kick off? ……I’m just not sure British society has the stones to kick off.
An ignorant belligerent chin out population which winds its neck in the moment it’s told

Establishment/government/class system is to ingrained

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I'm an optimist and hope that non violent revolution would be a possibility. A mixture of strike action by workers and civil disobedience by everyone else and those who are unable to strike. The population is always greater than the forces used to control it.

I certainly hope that there would be a minimum of violence, which apparently can happen with a swift enough revolution.

 

[not a trot]

The last time there was a remote possibility of an armed revolution was in the 70s as far as I can tell , that well known Communist Harold Wilson was too much for some folk and there was talk of the army taking over & installing Mountbatten as our new glorious Leader . The reality was that a few cranks wanted this but it never got anywhere .

And there lies the problem. In this country at least.

 

[A380]

Revolution by force means either terrorism or guerilla warfare. Both long drawn out paths that seldom end in victory.

Successful examples I guess include
Northern Island
Vietnam
Afghanistan

I think non violent examples have been more effective

India
Syria

Jesus, the only one of those I’d even half want to live in is NI and that’s only cos I won’t need a job and don’t mind the rain.

 

[A380]

I certainly hope that there would be a minimum of violence, which apparently can happen with a swift enough revolution.

Any examples of where that’s happened. Aside from the Usbourne Big Book of Revolutionary Fairytales?

 

[campanula]

O yes, I do think we are in revolutionary times, but not seeing the use of force or coercion as any sort of use to usher in a world turned upside down. Climate change, I believe, will be the harbinger of massive global restructuring which will have to come from a range of concerted efforts...and not state controlled. The current (and laughable) idea that we are in some democratic age will indeed be exposed for an absolute fiction, while money, at least in its present form, will change, from largely worthless financial instruments, to a currency based on utility, ideas, intangible, but nevertheless real and quantifiable ideas of joy, beauty, innovation, well-being and an altogether more purposeful way of measuring worth. Moreover, we simply cannot look to some idea of ruling governments (the breakdown of ideology in favour of short-term personal gains and a sort of celebritising of politicians is a marker of where we are headed) so old ideas of mutual aid, community organising, a restructured idea of family (extended kinships), obligations, barter...are potential adjustments to where we are now - a horrible, solipsistic sense of anomie, loneliness and fear. I am wildly hopeful because, at root, life itself is tenacious, flexible and ultimately resilient enough to overcome the next century of pandemics, tectonic and weather instability, social upheaval and the fragmenting of economic bubbles (such as property) and the ludicrous financial markets which are essentially smoke and mirrors compared to food, shelter, safety, kinship and home...the real drivers of change and also the most effective social glue.

So no, much as I enjoy the idea of tumbrils, stocks, guillotines and such, I really don't see this as anything other than a sort of short-term, fleetingly satisfying revenge fantasy...while the real revolutionary work will be done in the bread queues, the ad-hoc clinics, the factory lines, the local park, the million community groups and niche interest areas, including doorsteps. Starting with next door and moving on to create a neighbourhood vegetable scheme, gardening club, elderly support network, food delivery service...
I will certainly offer my wood as a community space...

It's always a numbers game tho'. When we are shocked and outraged by the idea of 3 million people on the dole, the fact that there are 30million in gainful employment tends to mitigate the effects somewhat. However - consider housing. In 1 generation, the UK has gone from roughly 70/30 split between owning and renting. Now, it is much nearer to 50/50...but without any of the underlying social contract between landlords and renters which pertained in many EU countries. So, once we tip over into majority renting, it really does become much harder to sustain the fiction that home ownership (or stable living circumstances) is freely available. These changes sneak up on us...and because they are slow and not uniform, they go unnoticed for a long time...but no amount of aspirational drivel in the tabloids or media can disguise the absolute hardships of homelessness (and the vague belief that this sort of thing happens to other people...definitely not to me).