Feminism - where are the threads?

[Manter]

Pride used to be genuinely empowering, too. I have many happy memories of it, even after it started to get commercialised.

But this might not be the thread for it.

Same thing with international women’s day. Email round the firm saying something vaguely supportive about women, no change to the real, structural issues holding us back. Emails from big corporates offering us 15% off stuff they have only persuaded us we need because we are women.

 

[scifisam]

Same thing with international women’s day. Email round the firm saying something vaguely supportive about women, no change to the real, structural issues holding us back. Emails from big corporates offering us 15% off stuff they have only persuaded us we need because we are women.

It's similar, but not the same. Going to Pride used to be a big deal. The first year I went, a huge group of us, we did it as a sort of fancy dress, so that those who weren't out could wear a mask. I didn't wear one but had one as a back-up. Just going was a big statement.

It's good that it's not such a big statement now. It's good that we are genuinely much more accepting of sexualities that aren't straight now. It's a shame that the march itself has become much more difficult to be a part of if you're just a person who happens to be gay.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Well I certainly am not meaning to be. Equally I could say that this...
...implies men are too scared to start such threads for fear of getting 'their heads bitten off' but that would be the worst reading I could have of your post wouldn't it?

That good will goes both ways so instead of accusing me of being patronising you could see that my point is a valid one, as proven by the fact a man already has started a thread they wanted to.

No, that's exactly why I personally am reluctant to post threads. I'm not convinced there'd be much acceptance if I articulated myself badly because I was trying to work something out or didn't know something. Rightly or wrongly it would feel like the firing line.

That thread Eoin started, it's hardly a topic for debate, is it? "Let's have a list"

 

[mango5]

Might be a bit of reluctance for men on here to start feminism related threads tbh.

This thread, entitled 'where are the threads' seems a reasonable place to discuss that.

No, that's exactly why I personally am reluctant to post threads. I'm not convinced there'd be much acceptance if I articulated myself badly because I was trying to work something out or didn't know something. Rightly or wrongly it would feel like the firing line.

I hear you.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No, that's exactly why I personally am reluctant to post threads. I'm not convinced there'd be much acceptance if I articulated myself badly because I was trying to work something out or didn't know something. Rightly or wrongly it would feel like the firing line.

That thread Eoin started, it's hardly a topic for debate, is it? "Let's have a list"

This is urban, people could disagree on the inclusion of certain things on a list too

Seriously though, is there a particular thread you'd like to start but are concerned about wording the OP 'correctly' ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

That’s not exactly an unbiased account of what’s happened in every one of those cases, is it?

I've made no claim to be unbiased.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not entirely sure this ‘ugly’ or ‘painful’ fracture will ever heal if we all potter along and pretend it’s not happening and don’t actually address it.

Anyway, saw Budweiser doing stuff for Pride on Twitter with a picture accompanied by the phrase ‘pink for femininity, blue for masculinity’ and I just despair so much. Have we really not moved on from this absolute rubbish?

Having seen the gamut of their beer glasses identifying "sexualities" which are a combo of sexualities, sexual identities and kinks, I'm not despairing, more "totally fucking bored at capitalism trying to expand into people's lives even more with REALLY shit marketing".

 

[ViolentPanda]

We’re all being encouraged to wear “Ally” badges at work. Hard-core finance Tories in “Ally” badges.

Fuck me sideways. That sort of thing always has an undercurrent of "...and if you don't wear one, we know where you stand, don't we?".

 

[ViolentPanda]

I got a bottle of Absolut with a rainbow flag on it last year

TBF, Absolut have decades of form for leaning into events with their marketing. Annoying, but nowhere near as annoying as a US brewery pushing their piss-weak brew through what is basically shitty pre-event advertising that supposedly illustrates how right-on they are. It's city.

 

[trashpony]

This is a great article on whataboutery:

Stop asking me ‘what about men?’

(Thanks to sojourner for sharing it)

 

[Athos]

This is a great article on whataboutery:

Stop asking me ‘what about men?’

(Thanks to sojourner for sharing it)

The comments =

 

[Poot]

The comments =

Jesus. The comments are *grim*.

Nearly all of them ask what about men

 

[trashpony]

Oh good grief, I hadn’t read the comments.

YEAH but WHATABOUTTHEMEN??

The internet is full of bitter incels

 

[smokedout]

That’s not exactly an unbiased account of what’s happened in every one of those cases, is it?

The schism in feminism between those inclusive of trans women and those who are not, is an ugly, painful fracture in our sisterhood that is a cause of genuine personal and enduring pain for me and many other feminists.

Indeed and some men seem to be positively revelling in it, on both sides. I wonder why? Can it at least be kept to the existing thread though, as per the wishes of the op.

 

[wayward bob]

There's a lot of rhetoric about a push-back against feminism by younger women, but from what I've seen so far - in the media - it's more talked about, as opposed to actually happening.

from my thoroughly middle-aged perspective there's a massive generational disconnect between (committed, dedicated, thought-out) feminist positions, discussions, and solidarity atm.

there's a generational break between second wave feminism (like i was raised in) and modern lib-fem (like my kids observe/subcribe to), and rad-fem that's in fundamental ways unbreachable imho

i figure one to get ^out from under^ is by getting older. i just feel like i'd really like to offer some help in skirting those hinterlands younger, while you're lining your own stuff up personally.

/grammar, syntax

 

[sojourner]

This is a great article on whataboutery:

Stop asking me ‘what about men?’

(Thanks to sojourner for sharing it)

I got it from baldrick on this thread Feminism and the silencing of women

 

[Manter]

Sorry @waywardbob what do you mean?

 

[Sweet FA]

I got a bottle of Absolut with a rainbow flag on it last year

Pride used to be genuinely empowering, too. I have many happy memories of it, even after it started to get commercialised.

But this might not be the thread for it.

Lil'FA sent me this yesterday:
(She had no idea re: the source film...now got They Live lined up for tomorrow...)

 

[friendofdorothy]

Patronising much?

Ha ha ha! (I'm presuming this is an attempt at humour...)

 

[Manter]

I have to say it is good (or at least interesting!) to see this stuff being discussed. Urban has been a bit of a wasteland for discussions on feminism, with some horrible leftie dude-bro stuff going on. Good to see that being challenged.

Most active and ‘lived’ feminism remains the parenting forum

 

[kabbes]

Most active and ‘lived’ feminism remains the parenting forum

Understandable since (a) it’s where a lot of the sharp end is met, and (b) politics naturally grows out of personal experience. But the last thing we want is to ghettoise discussion, not least because about one in five women in the UK will never have children at all, let alone those who haven’t had them yet (or whose children are now grown). It would be dangerous to present feminism as somehow synonymous with “mothers’ problems” (and dismissible as such to boot).

 

[Manter]

Understandable since (a) it’s where a lot of the sharp end is met, and (b) politics naturally grows out of personal experience. But the last thing we want is to ghettoise discussion, not least because about one in five women in the UK will never have children at all, let alone those who haven’t had them yet (or whose children are now grown). It would be dangerous to present feminism as somehow synonymous with “mothers’ problems” (and dismissible as such to boot).

Thanks for explaining the political implications of current reality that to me

For those reading who don’t have kids or they have grown up, you are more than welcome on the sofa, and there are many like you on it. You just have to not be a twat and have some interest in the kids and parenting/life issues we chat about.

 

[kabbes]

Thanks for explaining the political implications of current reality that to me

For those reading who don’t have kids or they have grown up, you are more than welcome on the sofa, and there are many like you on it. You just have to not be a twat and have some interest in the kids and parenting/life issues we chat about.

But nobody (or as close to nobody as makes no odds — I’m sure the odd person does) without kids is going to take part in that thread.

In fact, you said it yourself. You have to have an interest in kids. Why is that a a prerequisite for reading about feminist issues?

 

[Sweet FA]

Thanks for explaining the political implications of current reality that to me

For those reading who don’t have kids or they have grown up, you are more than welcome on the sofa, and there are many like you on it. You just have to not be a twat and have some interest in the kids and parenting/life issues we chat about.

I use to spend a lot of time on parent/child threads when they were all in n&s. When the parenting forum was set up, and I can't remember why now, I was pissed off. I think I thought that it was a exclusive or ghettoised or something & I stopped reading/contributing. Also that things to do with children weren't all about parenting or something. The sofa seemed to be more of a woman's space so I left it alone. Sulky fucker

 

[Thora]

But nobody (or as close to nobody as makes no odds — I’m sure the odd person does) without kids is going to take part in that thread.

In fact, you said it yourself. You have to have an interest in kids. Why is that a a prerequisite for reading about feminist issues?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Thora]

Boring old women, going on about parenting, can't even discuss feminism in the right place

 

[kabbes]

What on earth are you talking about?

Most active and ‘lived’ feminism remains the parenting forum

Understandable since (a) it’s where a lot of the sharp end is met, and (b) politics naturally grows out of personal experience. But the last thing we want is to ghettoise discussion, not least because about one in five women in the UK will never have children at all, let alone those who haven’t had them yet (or whose children are now grown). It would be dangerous to present feminism as somehow synonymous with “mothers’ problems” (and dismissible as such to boot).

HTH

 

[Thora]

Nope, doesn't help. It's bollocks. It's not a problem, or dangerous, that mothers find feminism relevant and discuss it.

Oh god, don't tarnish feminism as something that mothers might be interested in! How unsexy! No normal people are going to be interested!

 

[kabbes]

You’ve missed the point. A newcomer to the boards interested in discussing feminism couldn’t find that discussion? Why? Because it is apparently buried in the parenting thread. I couldn’t have told you that either. Nobody could who wasn’t active in the parenting thread. That’s ghettoising the subject.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Not 100% surprising that active feminist discussion might be found in a thread where lots of the participants are women and the men who would otherwise go to shut it down wouldn't even think of clicking on it.