mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I am not the poster you are looking for
this is true, what I wrote referred chiefly to posters who had been banned up till that point, with an abstract kind of nod to those still to be banned down the line.
I am not the poster you are looking for
Only example I can give from personal experience was from a place I was freelancing and three of us were getting more than the fourth. She found out in casual conversation, thought this was because she was a woman, and complained (one of the three on more than her was also a woman but she didn't know that). End result: we all got put down to her wage. Not sure how these anecdotes help.True. And I'm not saying this publishing is the whole answer.
A friend of mine is a female engineer in a well known engineering company. Somebody accidently emailed everyone's pay in a spreadsheet some years ago. Because the company was shamed with this my friend and all other females in the company got an immediate pay rise and it was back dated to when she started working for them. She managed to buy a decent car from her windfall
Only example I can give from personal experience was from a place I was freelancing and three of us were getting more than the fourth. She found out in casual conversation, thought this was because she was a woman, and complained (one of the three on more than her was also a woman but she didn't know that). End result: we all got put down to her wage. Not sure how these anecdotes help.
Do you mean to tell women they should put up with lower rates because men might suffer if they question it?Only example I can give from personal experience was from a place I was freelancing and three of us were getting more than the fourth. She found out in casual conversation, thought this was because she was a woman, and complained (one of the three on more than her was also a woman but she didn't know that). End result: we all got put down to her wage. Not sure how these anecdotes help.
And why shouldn't the outcome be positive? If men are being paid more than women and are then told that they are worth "only" the amount the woman is, that is not the woman's fault.Gutted! TBF my example was a more positive one
Nope. I meant little more than that individual anecdotes mean little. And as ever we are back to power relations and people's status and position of leverage. Among a bunch of pretty low-paid, non-unionised freelancers, management just decided to fuck everyone over equally in reaction to a complaint.Do you mean to tell women they should put up with lower rates because men might suffer if they question it?
And then they started paying new women (“females” ) equal amounts and giving equal pay rises forever after, as did their rivals who worried that the same thing would happen to them.True. And I'm not saying this publishing is the whole answer.
A friend of mine is a female engineer in a well known engineering company. Somebody accidently emailed everyone's pay in a spreadsheet some years ago. Because the company was shamed with this my friend and all other females in the company got an immediate pay rise and it was back dated to when she started working for them. She managed to buy a decent car from her windfall
Hi Kabbes, I'd be interested in your thoughts on what would achieve equal pay from offer to leaving? My excitable-self adores the idea of direct action and naming and shaming, if done properly. But would like to know more about why you think it wouldn't work and what you think would.Knowing about generic pay gap statistics will not achieve the same thing at all.
I have found the discontents of capitalism to be profoundly debilitating and inextricably linked to oppression as a parent...in particularly a specific few months either side of the 3 births I have experienced. It was also easier to find the sort of casualised, lowly paid and often menial work which fitted around childcare while my male partner never had a job which didn't entail a 7.30am start and a finish far later than school pick-up times. The enforced segregation of parenting based on biology, for this woeful and often reluctant mother was particularly insidious...as it reinforced an already deeply ingrained sense of duty, denial of self and failure of confidence to ever attempt to regain my relatively egalitarian position pre-parenting.
I have nothing remotely objective to say about this thread's earlier pre-occupation with sex-workers since I am so wholly fucked up on that score that my views are basically worthless.
Came late to feminism in the 70s and generally despaired of later iterations with weasel omissions of class (see the general approval given to 'burlesque' as opposed to mere stripping...) I guess i have some terfy tendencies since I definitely think women should have the right to a penis-free space.
Yes I now lose out on sick and holiday pay. With Brexit looming I may look to find a part-time job to receive company benefits. I think I will lose some clients due to supply chain issues. This also means there may be fewer jobs too.When I was doing the school run, the only work I could do was self employment. It worked after a fashion, I could at least choose my hours, but it wasn't well paid.
Why is a banker paid more than a foster carer. That’s what we’ve got to ask ourselves. Cos let me tell you, sat there in your air conditioned office with your spreadsheet and your Pret A Manger sandwich doing numbers and negotiation, is that REALLY more difficult than a 24/7 role managing minute to minute the emotional, physical, and developmental needs of an emotionally damaged child? Is it more difficult, let alone more important. Is it fuck, and that’s the rub.
Oh God, it requires huge structural changes from top to bottom. Most of the causes of things like pay inequality is not because somebody directly sets out to oppress women. The people who set pay probably think of themselves as fair-minded types that treat everyone the same. But it happens anyway because capital fundamentally sets out to oppress/exploit *everyone*. And those with the biggest gap between themselves and the means of production get screwed the hardest. When you have to take whatever job is going, the people doing the hiring can afford to pay you the least. When your job doesn’t produce scalable profit, you’re going to continue to be viewed as a cost centre to be rationalised rather than an asset to be retained. It’s only 50 years since women even started to gain a measure of power, which is a blink of an eye, and we lived with half-changed minds in a world that is structurally slanted to create barriers for them.Hi Kabbes, I'd be interested in your thoughts on what would achieve equal pay from offer to leaving? My excitable-self adores the idea of direct action and naming and shaming, if done properly. But would like to know more about why you think it wouldn't work and what you think would.
Fabulous - thank you.I'd recommend this for a discussion of work, gender and class, and how we might get out of it: https://libcom.org/files/the-problem-with-work_-feminism-marxism-kathi-weeks.pdf
It’s only 50 years since women even started to gain a measure of power, which is a blink of an eye, and we lived with half-changed minds in a world that is structurally slanted to create barriers for them.
Do you mean an Afghani and Ugandan living in the UK or within their own countries. I require a little more of your insight on this either way.Let me put it another way: why is there still such a massive pay gap between the average wage of a Briton and the average wage of an Afghani or a Ugandan? Is it because you are unaware that the difference exists? Is it because we collectively think Britons are superior? Or are there deep structural issues to do with ownership and power that don’t go away just because we all decide we’re going to be nice from now on?
*raises hand* he's better at putting up with workplace bullshit in a lucrative field. i'm better at being my own boss and doing repetitive manual/dirty stuffI can't think of any of my friends who follow the traditional nuclear family layout with women doing the home stuff and the man going out working. Tbh I find that an old attitude - although I do know it still exists in some places.
Are you both men or am I assuming your gender Bob ?*raises hand* he's better at putting up with workplace bullshit in a lucrative field. i'm better at being my own boss and doing repetitive manual/dirty stuff
In their own countries. I’m asking (semi-rhetorically) why such wealth disparity perpetuates across people generally? You don’t need to view male/female disparity as existing as somehow distinct from that process.Do you mean an Afghani and Ugandan living in the UK or within their own countries. I require a little more of your insight on this either way.
Bobs a woman. And for transparency: I’m a man.Are you both men or am I assuming your gender Bob ?
a millennial me might be gender fluid, perhaps, but i'm born femaleAre you both men or am I assuming your gender Bob ?
An old bird like me tries to always be as gender free as I cana millennial me might be gender fluid, perhaps, but i'm born female
But in terms of the feminist perspective we will examine the male/female disparityIn their own countries. I’m asking (semi-rhetorically) why such wealth disparity perpetuates across people generally? You don’t need to view male/female disparity as existing as somehow distinct from that process.
i approach the world that way but it doesn't pan out as often as i'd like.An old bird like me tries to always be as gender free as I can
And rightly so. But don’t be fooled into thinking it will be fixed if we just persuade everyone to try to be fairer. It’s a structural problem that needs structural solutions.But in terms of the feminist perspective we will examine the male/female disparity
We're women we're used to being told we must be kinder and the world will be fairer. No one is fooling us.And rightly so. But don’t be fooled into thinking it will be fixed if we just persuade everyone to try to be fairer. It’s a structural problem that needs structural solutions.
i took an absolutely voluntary choice, given my/our circumstances, our current situation is my best-possible-outcome, and i'm genuinely content with it....as it reinforced an already deeply ingrained sense of duty, denial of self and failure of confidence to ever attempt to regain my relatively egalitarian position pre-parenting...
Gromit posts regularly to try and expose hypocrisy from feminists. He’s not very clever though, and it never works, so he’s probably the most derided poster on urban. He’s pretty much the closest thing we have to an incel.
In their own countries. I’m asking (semi-rhetorically) why such wealth disparity perpetuates across people generally? You don’t need to view male/female disparity as existing as somehow distinct from that process.
But there is still male/female inbalance in this country and most others that needs a 'structural' solution too. How do you suggest we address that?And rightly so. But don’t be fooled into thinking it will be fixed if we just persuade everyone to try to be fairer. It’s a structural problem that needs structural solutions.