fascist infiltration of the left

[Pickman's model]

* Back in October, just a few weeks after making contact, Manchester District Socialist Workers Party organiser Asme Choonara nominated both Joe and Diane as delegates to the secret SWP national conference in London . On the list of delegates they were both described as “leading activists” in Manchester .
* Diane was almost immediately appointed to the ‘Greater Manchester Stop the War Coalition' treasury and fund raising committee.
* Recognising the failure of the then existing Manchester University and Manchester Metropolitan SWSS (the SWP's student wing) organisers national SWSS organiser and NUS national executive member Tom Whittaker sacked Robert Owen, Anthony Parkin and David Robinson and replaced them with Joe and Diane. This caused much upset among the reds and a lot of verbal threats were made against the SWSS hierarchy.
* Both were founder members of SWP front groups Manchester Against Racism and Unite Against Fascism (the latter is successor to the now disbanded Anti Nazi League).
* They were close friends with UAF secretary Weyman Bennett, who often called the pair for help and advice.
* Both were founder members of Respect and the ‘Convention of the Left' meeting in January.
* At the North West Respect Regional Respect meeting on 11 th March Joe Finnon was nominated by Salford SWP stalwart and frequenter Viv Smith to be Regional Treasurer. Joe was unanimously elected to this position and took up his seat on the Executive.

are you denying this lot?

and considering the bnp's legal team are on the case (and assuming they know the basics of law) do you think it likely they would post up details of *criminal offences* the pair had committed?

 

[Pickman's model]

The claims they make in the original statement were just dull.

you'd know better than i as i never made the mistake of joining the swp.

 

[Pickman's model]

Now, I need to write a list of taxi firms/ hotel rooms/ information etc, so I'll read any further baseless assertions tomorrow (unless you've been keeping something back and you actually know something).

planning something underhand?

 

[alphaDelta]

are you denying this lot?

As I understand it, various critical sections of that are indeed untrue - either way someone's been lying to me and, this time at least, I doubt it's the SWP.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Just got back from two rainless weeks in Spain so I missed all this.Isn't there a little bit of paranoia here with what info the two infiltrators might have had access to? The SWP have been leaving party notes about in pubs for ages and the fash used to regularly come across petitions and contact lists. As the SWP and Workers Power haven't been able to deliver a no platform strategy then they are unlikely to be victims of any similar strategy by the BNP. It's just a curiosity raid by the BNP to live amongst the 'enemy' for a while.

I was at PNL and was heavily involved in the Harrington Out campaign at a time when Harrington had been recently involved in violent attacks on the left in Chapel Street market with his NF mates.At least three sites of PNL were occupied, two students jailed, and injunctions taken out on twenty others. As guest speaker on behalf of the Harrington Out campaign I receieved the highest number of votes at the NUS conference and we forced the NUS to hold a national demonstration. We still had to settle for him to be taught in isolation .

The current situation is entirely different both in terms of relevance and in terms of balance.Do we really need a student led campaign against the BNP?

Incidentially I can remember an NF member being outed in West London when he joined the Hounslow or Isleworth SWP branch in the late 70s.Just by accident me and two others spotted him with a known NFer in a pub, I think he may have been his partner. And does anyone remember Peter Marriner , the British Movement member who I think became a Labour Party election agent in the Midlands ?

 

[butchersapron]

Wasn't Mariner the SB 'agent' who was 'outed' during the Peter Taylor's True Spies series?

He stills seems to be active as well:
http://www.****nationalist.org/airlink/1998/immigration.html

Hmm...

 

[West68thStreet]

Feel a little duped actually



Bit late for this maybe . . . I'm not SWP but I am a member of Respect, for now. I've looked at the pics of the 2 BNPers and I recognise the girl from the post-election meeting we had at Friends Meeting house in Manchester. I remember she was a Geordie, turns out she's from the North East so it was defo her. She said some vaguely 'toeing the party line' things about race and community blah blah which in retro sound wilfully naive since we were at that moment discussing potential for Green coalitions etc. The SWP should post up all the info they have on the 2 little piggies on the basic principle that you share antifash info with as many antifascists as poss- common enemy and all that. I live near the Uni, if they're back here in September I'll be round the faculty banging on doors. But forget about SWP for a sec, this was a Respect meeting they 'infiltrated' on this occasion, so why haven't Respect put something on their site about this? Or better still emailed us? Since there's lots of inexperienced activists involved in this who might well be concerned that BNP may have access to our info (they have my name, address, phone no., bank details, work address etc) I don't think it's too much to ask for something to be said! There's a Respect meeting tomorrow night, I want answers.

 

[past caring]

Chuck's comments pretty much echo my thoughts - I wasn't "forced out of the debate" or whatever term flimsier used; I simply don't think it's all that important.

I can't see the SWP/UAF or Workers Power (this would be the same WP who have supposedly been arguing for an "AFA type" campaign - but who actually left AFA when, far from recruiting, they found themselves losing members to RA and DAM) being able to organise anything of any significance - even amongst students. Any campaign they did mount would likely be as beneficial (or more so) to the BNP as it was to achieve anything.

 

[sihhi]

Not sure if I've missed it but I've found nothing in Socialist Worker about it

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/

either this week's copy or last week's one.

 

[layabout]

Bit late for this maybe . . . I'm not SWP but I am a member of Respect, for now. I've looked at the pics of the 2 BNPers and I recognise the girl from the post-election meeting we had at Friends Meeting house in Manchester. I remember she was a Geordie, turns out she's from the North East so it was defo her. She said some vaguely 'toeing the party line' things about race and community blah blah which in retro sound wilfully naive since we were at that moment discussing potential for Green coalitions etc. The SWP should post up all the info they have on the 2 little piggies on the basic principle that you share antifash info with as many antifascists as poss- common enemy and all that. I live near the Uni, if they're back here in September I'll be round the faculty banging on doors. But forget about SWP for a sec, this was a Respect meeting they 'infiltrated' on this occasion, so why haven't Respect put something on their site about this? Or better still emailed us? Since there's lots of inexperienced activists involved in this who might well be concerned that BNP may have access to our info (they have my name, address, phone no., bank details, work address etc) I don't think it's too much to ask for something to be said! There's a Respect meeting tomorrow night, I want answers.

I'm sorry, but you won't get anywhere by being confrontational. There would be NOTHING to gain by posting these peoples personal details all over the shop. All you will do is entrench them further into the BNP.

One day, you'll realise that the only way to change a racist, is to respect their opinion in the first place. Sound's like too much to stomach, I know, but it's the truth. You can't change people's minds by being confronational.

If you want to do damage against the BNP, you have to make the BNP leadership the enemy of the BNP membership....making yourself the enemy of BNP activists, would not help your cause one jot.

 

[Sacred Spirit]

Heard a story mid last year, 'bout Sheffield stop the war group having trouble over fascist activists in and around the anti war events, fascists posing as anti war supporters, at time quite a number of people attended meetings and involvement.

Later in the year over disagrements between the SWP on the one side and opposers on the other, the meetings shrunk to as little as a doz people with a 6 - 6 split.

Effectively brought the anti war group to a standstill.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Layabout you want people to respect the views of BNP activists?!

These two people are obviously hardened BNPers so trying to convince them of the error of their ways is hardly a priority…..also the BNP is still tiny and breaking their membership from the leadership is also not a priority. Convincing people who vote BNP that it’s not the way forward is the real issue and convincing the millions of people disillusioned with Labour that we need a socialist alternative.

In terms of confrontation changing peoples minds, that’s not the point of no platform, no platform is about self-defence and stopping fascists from operating to prevent the horrors of fascist society. And it has been successful in the past, even the BNP admit this (and Hitler also said the only way they would have been stopped is if the left had smashed the Nazis when they were small). How and when you use it is a tactical decision though.

this would be the same WP who have supposedly been arguing for an "AFA type" campaign - but who actually left AFA when, far from recruiting, they found themselves losing members to RA and DAM

What rubbish. Have you got figures for how many activists WP lost to RA and DAM? The reason WP left was over political disagreement, but never mind….

In terms of what has been done, WP, as far as I know are the only group to have done anything with the leafleting of the fascists workplace.

PC I still don’t get what you are saying should be done about this in terms of the two fascists…..

 

[belboid]

Heard a story mid last year, 'bout Sheffield stop the war group having trouble over fascist activists in and around the anti war events, fascists posing as anti war supporters, at time quite a number of people attended meetings and involvement.

Later in the year over disagrements between the SWP on the one side and opposers on the other, the meetings shrunk to as little as a doz people with a 6 - 6 split.

Effectively brought the anti war group to a standstill.

total bollocks. unsurprisingly considering the person making the claims.

 

[danno_at_work]

pls dont quote ss i have them on ignore and kind of like it

 

[belboid]

sorry

but not everyone does, and you never know, someone might believe em!

 

[Sacred Spirit]

total bollocks. unsurprisingly considering the person making the claims.

Rebel warrior may try to cast K Marx in the role of a creator, but I do not post from nothing.

Have you already checked with the members of the Sheffield anti war group ? or is it Belboid who talks bollocks (again) ? so whom will listen to him ?

Did I not warn of the effect the leafleting of schools was having, with the bnp activity following the swp policies, well prior to the Manchester event becoming public ?

So now we can add to the growing list - Sheffield.

Read the above post again and try to fathom as to why the Sheff' co' vastly shrunk and shed support due to the internal splitting of the group over the setting up of a local newsletter, agreed to fully at meetings and minuted, yet then met with limitations imposed by then SWP, when the initial work had already started.

Check the limitations as well ? and then compare to the known swp methods and work out why they use them.

Not long following the spot the fascist events.

 

[flimsier]

Why does Sacred Spirit post when it knows everyone has it on ignore!

 

[Pickman's model]

Why does Sacred Spirit post when it knows everyone has it on ignore!

to make sure people know about the "ignore" list. i suppose, anyway.

 

[danno_at_work]

to make sure people know about the "ignore" list. i suppose, anyway.

its how i found out about it

and its great

 

[flimsier]

I wouldn't need it if it wasn't for it.

 

[belboid]

Have you already checked with the members of the Sheffield anti war group ?

i live here arsehole, i am a member of that group. you are talking 100% proof shite - now fuck off.

 

[danno_at_work]

i live here arsehole, i am a member of that group. you are talking 100% proof shite - now fuck off.

your doing it again

aaarrrgghh

 

[flimsier]

i live here arsehole, i am a member of that group. you are talking 100% proof shite - now fuck off.

OI!

You don't need to quote him to us!

 

[Pickman's model]

i live here arsehole, i am a member of that group. you are talking 100% proof shite - now fuck off.

take a tip from me, flimsier and danno_at_work - about the only time we agree - and chuck sacred spirit on ignore.

 

[flimsier]

Lol

 

[belboid]

good point, humble apols.......

consider it done...

 

[Sacred Spirit]

Why does Sacred Spirit post when it knows everyone has it on ignore!

For whom it is meant flimsier and flimsier or so they say the swp is getting, interesting as to how many new ones there are, compare the no. of posters to the view figures, there are more people than you think reading these threads.

The interest in the activities of the bnp and swp are concerning as well as amusing people, the number has risen, they are studying everything the swp members write and also any critique coming from it.
Some very interesting contributions from others, one of the best threads/discussion of an item so far since I first descended from a better place, to wander amongst you.

They are also considering the friends of the swp as suspect also, I should think you remember when they 'ganged up' on poor SS, drawing out the devil he called it.
How they tried to make out that ALL the socialist/marxists and the anarchist's and 'olynch had been united for the first time ever, -- in defence of the swp - sad it took the lot of you, but revealing.

The swp 2 years last Jan were said to be about 4 and a half thousand, 3 in and around London, recent figures are around 1 and a half thousand, so much for the 'biggest' of the left.
They exist mainly in cities and their policy of leafletting schools is as widespread and so is the area of concern, the bnp in the 70's wanted to leaflet schools, so now they do, thanks to the help of the SWP.

Appears they got it wrong didn't they/you, only the petty bourgeois revisionists uniting in fear wasn't it, did you spot the bnp infiltrator amongst them, only one, schizophrenic ?
(Flimsy - pickman – danno – belboid, all amongst them, last ten posts ?)

There was a majority who didn't join in, some have been posting on this topic on the threads against the SWP, so we are in a better position as to who are the closest to the swp.

So hopefully now you have an answer, people will now stick to contributions to the thread topic and leave the classroom antics for when you get home.

 

[Sacred Spirit]

i live here arsehole, i am a member of that group. you are talking 100% proof shite - now fuck off.

.
So that means that I don't have to go into the groups archives, web site, and retreive them for you, as members we have the same access to the circulated discussion.

 

[belboid]

This message is hidden because Sacred Spirit is on your ignore list.

Got it!

 

[Sacred Spirit]

Got it!

Well then shall people now accept that the info' regarding Sheff' is correct, you are now in a difficult position, no denial anymore, thought that would sort you out, was right.