Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[lengualo]

This situation is so different and so much more appalling than anything in recent history that there will definitely be an independent public enquiry, and all sorts of views on the impact of counter protests should and will be considered. I don’t think that standard lines to take will cut it at all.

Serious answer, you're treating the police like a hive mind. I know one former officer who would support counter protest if they dont make themselves a problem, Im sure there are many who think that way, and many who don't.

You'll find a variety of opinons because people are people. So its not a question anyone here can answer, even if they are an officer. They'd speak for themselves.

 

[Serge Forward]

including some paid-up leftists on this here message board (no names).

Still waiting for the bank transfer to clear.

 

[Wilf]

Yeah, I’m aware. As I say, I really want to know what Urban’s cops think, and want to see what is said in the public enquiry about the impact of counter-protesters. But right now, anything would be good - send in the troops, arm dinner ladies. There’s a hotel full of asylum seekers and DV victims that people are trying to set on fire ffs.

You want to see what the public enquiry says? Well, fuck me, respect to you, out there on the front line!

 

[Orang Utan]

When you say “community”, do you mean the local community, and if so how local?

Jesus Neville, haven't you ever been to an antifascist demo?

 

[Sue]

But if the main local response available is communitarian and ethnic minority, does that give fascists an excuse to pretend they have the race war they want?

That's an interesting take on things. I'm not sure you've really thought this through.

 

[Silas Loom]

Silas seems to think there's a left wing rent-a-mob running round from town to town

Oh, come on. There is, ffs. AFA and AFN and so on are a thing. They organise, and they support each other when more bodies are needed, because they believe that physical confrontations with fascists are a good deterrent to their marches.

I don’t disagree necessarily with that view when far right marches are permitted by the authorities. I just think that when lives and communities are genuinely threatened and the riot police are trying to protect people from fascists, members of the public are likely unhelpful participants in the action.

The Rotherham situation is just terrifying. Incomprehensible. And if it would have been avoided by any sort of solidarity demonstration outside the hotel, that would have been brilliant.

 

[YouSir]

On a side note, does anyone know if they have anything planned in Luton?

Also Southampton.

 

[two sheds]

I trust there'll be loads of body cams with good images of the faces of people throwing bricks and setting fires.

 

[Silas Loom]

Serious answer, you're treating the police like a hive mind. I know one former officer who would support counter protest if they dont make themselves a problem, Im sure there are many who think that way, and many who don't.

You'll find a variety of opinons because people are people. So its not a question anyone here can answer, even if they are an officer. They'd speak for themselves.

Yeah, true. But any Urban cops who add their tuppenceworth would at least be doing so in the right spirit. And, as I say, there will be a public enquiry and there will be tangible evidence about the interplay of all the different groups who were mobilised in the places where it kicked off, and the ones where it didn’t.

 

[Humberto]

The hate you are seeing in Rotherham there against people who risked life and limb for asylum.

 

[Wilf]

This situation is so different and so much more appalling than anything in recent history that there will definitely be an independent public enquiry, and all sorts of views on the impact of counter protests should and will be considered. I don’t think that standard lines to take will cut it at all.

Bizarre. I suspect you are are not actually trolling, but where the fuck are you coming from? Fucking clueless about actual real life.

 

[Serge Forward]

Oh, come on. There is, ffs. AFA and AFN and so on are a thing. They organise, and they support each other when more bodies are needed, because they believe that physical confrontations with fascists are a good deterrent to their marches.

I don’t disagree necessarily with that view when far right marches are permitted by the authorities. I just think that when lives and communities are genuinely threatened and the riot police are trying to protect people from fascists, members of the public are likely unhelpful participants in the action.

The Rotherham situation is just terrifying. Incomprehensible. And if it would have been avoided by any sort of solidarity demonstration outside the hotel, that would have been brilliant.

The bit in bold is not a definition of rent-a-mob. Being organised is really not the same thing. Meanwhile, the police can not be trusted to defend people under attack from far right mobs intent on mayhem, especially when the police have form for behaving very badly towards those they are meant to "protect".

 

[Sue]

Oh, come on. There is, ffs. AFA and AFN and so on are a thing. They organise, and they support each other when more bodies are needed, because they believe that physical confrontations with fascists are a good deterrent to their marches.

AFA as was hasn't been a thing for quite some time. Saying that, I do recommend reading https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beating-Fascists-Untold-Anti-Fascist-Action/dp/190449112X. It might give you some things to think about.

(Sorry for the Amazon link.)

I don’t disagree necessarily with that view when far right marches are permitted by the authorities. I just think that when lives and communities are genuinely threatened and the riot police are trying to protect people from fascists, members of the public are likely unhelpful participants in the action.

So we should leave it to 'the professionals'?

The Rotherham situation is just terrifying. Incomprehensible. And if it would have been avoided by any sort of solidarity demonstration outside the hotel, that would have been brilliant.

Or we shouldn't leave it to 'the professionals'?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Oh, come on. There is, ffs. AFA and AFN and so on are a thing.

Are you posting from 1994?

 

[BristolEcho]

Oh, come on. There is, ffs. AFA and AFN and so on are a thing. They organise, and they support each other when more bodies are needed, because they believe that physical confrontations with fascists are a good deterrent to their marches.

I don’t disagree necessarily with that view when far right marches are permitted by the authorities. I just think that when lives and communities are genuinely threatened and the riot police are trying to protect people from fascists, members of the public are likely unhelpful participants in the action.

The Rotherham situation is just terrifying. Incomprehensible. And if it would have been avoided by any sort of solidarity demonstration outside the hotel, that would have been brilliant.

Did you see Bristol last night? Seriously doing my head in.



There would have been no one there if the counter demo, and about 5 cops hadn't of been there. Wait for the public enquiry after the hotels have been burnt down. Great tactic.

You laugh at people who know their history of anti facism (which I only have a basic knowledge of) and yet this is exactly why they know what tactics need to be deployed.

 

[Silas Loom]

AFA as was hasn't been a thing for quite some time. Saying that, I do recommend reading https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beating-Fascists-Untold-Anti-Fascist-Action/dp/190449112X. It might give you some things to think about.

(Sorry for the Amazon link.)

So we should leave it to 'the professionals'?

Or we shouldn't leave it to 'the professionals'?

I was saying that seeing a burning hotel is a challenge to my settled opinion on the matter.

It does look as if they’ve got things under control now at the Holiday Inn, thank goodness.

 

[lengualo]

Yeah, true. But any Urban cops who add their tuppenceworth would at least be doing so in the right spirit. And, as I say, there will be a public enquiry and there will be tangible evidence about the interplay of all the different groups who were mobilised in the places where it kicked off, and the ones where it didn’t.

I dont know whether its the best thing to be asking right now when a lot of people are very stressed, anxious and frustrated. Some people here may have had bad experiences in the past, especially if they were campaigners in the 70's for example. So its obviously a bit of a baity question.

If you wanted to discuss whether counter protest is helping, and what form it should take, then I think that would be a more sensitive approach. What you're asking is whether counter protest is welcome.

As someone who doesn't believe all police are bad, and who supports peaceful protest and rejects violent protest, even I think the questions you're asking as misplaced. So it must be almost incendary for others right now.

 

[Sue]

I was saying that seeing a burning hotel is a challenge to my settled opinion on the matter.

It does look as if they’ve got things under control now at the Holiday Inn, thank goodness.

That book may well blow your mind then.

 

[Wilf]

Silas seems to think there's a left wing rent-a-mob running round from town to town

'Agitators' was the phrase.

 

[danny la rouge]

I was saying that seeing a burning hotel is a challenge to my settled opinion on the matter.

It does look as if they’ve got things under control now at the Holiday Inn, thank goodness.

There was a counter protest at Rotherham. It will have been full of locals. I don’t know why it’s reported to have dispersed: I’m not there. But you can be certain locals were.

But, please, this is not the time or place.

 

[Serge Forward]

'Agitators' was the phrase.

Outside agitators.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

arm dinner ladies

That would be fucking terrifying, if the evil dinner ladies at primary school were anything to go by.

 

[danny la rouge]

That would be fucking terrifying, if the evil dinner ladies at primary school were anything to go by.

Oi, my sister-in-law is a dinner lady! (Although I absolutely wouldn’t arm her).

 

[Spymaster]

Arsehole at the end of that takes a nice left jab to the throat.

Would have liked to see the result of that.

 

[DaveCinzano]

As shown in the video from Belfast's Lower Ormeau Road posted by weepiper (IIRC), when local residents come together to resist a hostile mob coming down their street, it can be very powerful in itself.

 

[klang]

How is the discussion whether communities should be standing up against fash mobs going?

 

[Poot]

I'm not in the UK at the moment, but the BBC described 'Pro- and anti- immigration protests' on their website. Wtaf. How do you have a pro immigration protest? Why in God's name are the two sides being given equivalence? With inevitable consequences. It must be terrifying. So grateful for the right thinkers out there because it's just not being reported.

 

[Wilf]

Are you posting from 1994?

No, 1949.

Actually, no, I suspect people had learned a few lessons about opposing facsm then.

 

[cloudyday]

who the fuck are these cunts.

Spoiler: Rotherham

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/3123f7712bf2d930712ad7508866e14b062f3100/0_0_8192_5464/master/8192.jpg?width=600&dpr=2&s=none

 

[DaveCinzano]

A photograph from the Mercure hotel on Redcliff Hill in Bristol yesterday: